[00:00:00] Welcome, this is Hashtag GenZ, a podcast that explores Generation Z. Who they are, how
[00:00:21] they're different from other generations while also being an incredible blend of those who
[00:00:25] came before them. We explore what they think is cool, what moves them, and why they do
[00:00:29] what they do. I'm your host, Meghan Grace, and it's so nice to have you here.
[00:00:34] In today's episode, we'll be discussing how the global pandemic shifted work life
[00:00:38] and changed the rules for management and culture in real time. Specifically, we'll
[00:00:43] be touching on discrepancies between GenZ, their bosses in the workplace, and how to address them.
[00:00:48] Delight Digital recently published research titled, Hey Bosses, here's what GenZ actually wants at work,
[00:00:54] which encourages leaders to understand the differences between GenZ and other generations
[00:00:59] instead of categorizing them as difficult, something that I can certainly get behind.
[00:01:04] If you manage or lead GenZers, this episode is for you. According to the report, 61%
[00:01:10] of GenZers that are already in the workforce feel that work is a significant part of their identity,
[00:01:16] while 86% of bosses say that work is a significant part of their identity. The research also revealed
[00:01:22] that more than 7 in 10 bosses are excited about the ways the workforce will change as GenZ
[00:01:28] makes up an increasingly greater portion of it. We unpack what a leader can do to bridge these
[00:01:34] gaps. In this episode, I'm joined by Amelia Dunlap, Chief Experience Officer at Delight Digital,
[00:01:39] where she helps develop winning strategies that combine innovation, creativity, and digital strategy.
[00:01:44] Amelia loves helping clients create solutions and build the organizational momentum
[00:01:49] to turn the future they imagine into a reality. She also received Consulting Magazine's 2020
[00:01:55] Top Women in Technology Award for Excellence in Innovation and is the author of the best-selling
[00:01:59] books, Elevating the Human Experience, Three Passes to Love and Worth at Work,
[00:02:04] and The Four Factors of Trust, How Organizations Can Earn Lifelong Loyalty. Amelia writes and
[00:02:10] speaks regularly about the human experience, creativity, and customer strategy and contributes
[00:02:15] to Wall Street Journal's CMO Journal and Ad Week. She also serves on the board of the
[00:02:21] McDowell Colony, a national nonprofit that creates space for artists. I'm also joined
[00:02:27] by Michael Pankowski, an analyst at Delight Digital. He's a thought leader on Gen Z and a
[00:02:33] co-author of the book Engaging Gen Z, Lessons to Effectively Engage Gen Z via Marketing, Social
[00:02:38] Media, Retail, Work, and School. Michael also presents on Gen Z at global and national conferences
[00:02:45] including PR Week Connect, PR Decoded, and SportsPro OTT Summit USA. And his thought
[00:02:52] leadership on this space can be found in ad age, PR week, Forbes, insider, and money.com.
[00:02:58] Amelia and Michael will shed light about their experiences working together as a Gen X and Gen Z
[00:03:03] and how to best collaborate across generations. They also share their key takeaways for leadership
[00:03:09] on how to work with the newest members of the workforce and for Gen Z to get the most out of their first jobs.
[00:03:15] The sizzle of McDonald's sausage. It's enough to make you crave your favorite breakfasts.
[00:03:26] Enough to head over to McDonald's. Enough to make you really wish this commercial were scratch and sniff.
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[00:03:46] regular price. Dot com. So I want to welcome my new friends, Amelia and Michael, to the conversation
[00:03:58] today. They joined us from the Deloitte digital team. And I'm very excited. I always love an
[00:04:02] opportunity to talk about one research and two Gen Z research. And so to have two wonderful
[00:04:09] experts join me in today's conversation is just something I'm over the moon about. So
[00:04:13] Amelia and Michael, welcome. And it's so exciting to have you here.
[00:04:17] Great to be here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us.
[00:04:20] Yeah. So we'd love to learn a little bit more about what the view I know we've had a little
[00:04:24] bit of chance to get to know each other, but the listeners really want to know who you are. So
[00:04:28] tell us more about who you are kind of your professional journey this season is about
[00:04:32] work. So if you want to condense your career journey down a little bit,
[00:04:37] but would love to learn kind of what you do on your team and how you got there.
[00:04:42] Great. So I'm happy to jump in and go first. And then it's great to see your cat there, Megan.
[00:04:47] Welcome. I'm Amelia Dallopp. I'm the Chief Experience Officer for Deloitte Digital. And
[00:04:55] I wake up every day thinking about how we can make experiences just a little bit better for
[00:04:59] our clients, who we call customers, our workforce as well as our partners. And we do that from
[00:05:05] what we call the human experience perspective. And the idea being that none of us woke up
[00:05:11] this morning as a customer, nobody woke up as an employee. We all wake up as humans first.
[00:05:16] And we try to bring more of a human-centered design approach to everything we do.
[00:05:21] And actually two years ago I published a book called Elevating the Human Experience
[00:05:26] where I really explored what does it mean to show up in a workplace and feel
[00:05:31] loved and feel worthy and kind of that authentic personal as well as professional selves.
[00:05:37] And I think that's really kind of led to that journey of meeting Michael and the research
[00:05:41] that we jointly led on Gen Z. So Michael, over to you. Yeah. So I'm an analyst at Deloitte Digital
[00:05:47] and for the last five years I've been writing, researching and speaking on Gen Z. So all throughout
[00:05:53] college this is what I was doing. I co-authored a book on this. I wrote in Ad Age and PR Week.
[00:05:58] And when it came time to get a job I was interested in consulting. I met Amelia
[00:06:02] and I saw the book she had written. And I was like, I have to work for her. So luckily I was getting
[00:06:07] that opportunity and then we started. We did this Gen Z research together. We've been doing this for
[00:06:11] the last year and it's been fantastic. I love, like this is just an intersection of people that
[00:06:19] I feel like I could talk to for hours about this, right? Like Michael you really hit a corner
[00:06:24] researching Gen Z and consulting. That is my intersection of things I love and then
[00:06:29] just improving the human experience. I think that that's what is really going to lead us down a great
[00:06:34] path today. What we're here to talk about really is this recent research that you keep kind of teasing
[00:06:39] at. But I'm very excited to learn more about. So, you know, we know that Deloitte Digital has
[00:06:44] recently done a study on Gen Z and their bosses which I think so many people are interested
[00:06:49] about. I oversee some Gen Zers and the work that I do and I'm still learning as well.
[00:06:54] So what motivated Deloitte to be even pursuing this study? And then really how did you go about
[00:06:59] engaging the participants? Tell us, give us a little bit of that background on this on the study
[00:07:03] you all conducted. Sure. So why don't I kick us off and then Michael, you can jump in. I mean,
[00:07:09] I really feel like it came from the conversations that Michael and I had and we were first
[00:07:13] talking about whether or not he might join us here at Deloitte Digital. And we realized that
[00:07:19] you don't elevate anyone's experience generally, right? You actually have to do something
[00:07:23] specific to understand the lived experience of the person on the other side of the table.
[00:07:27] And in this case, we're talking about Gen Z who's entering the workforce really for the first time
[00:07:32] in the past couple of years. And I was fascinated to learn more about Michael's perspective,
[00:07:38] the research and work that he's led. And so we just kind of conspired for what kind of
[00:07:42] research might we want to do together to uncover that white space or what's different
[00:07:46] about this generation? So that's a little bit of the background. So Michael, do you want to
[00:07:49] share kind of what we then decided to do together? Yeah, then finding that white space,
[00:07:54] we found there was not much research at all on specifically what Gen Z wants from their bosses.
[00:08:00] And as Gen Z was starting to come into the workforce, make up an increasing
[00:08:04] percentage of it, we decided that was a very important area to pursue to see what we could
[00:08:10] find. Yeah, one thing I also share is that might that may be relevant, Megan, is when
[00:08:17] Michael and I graduated from the same college. So we have fun college stories to tell,
[00:08:22] but when I was a senior year finishing up my kind of undergraduate thesis,
[00:08:27] I actually wrote my thesis on the religion of Generation X. So I had done a bunch of research
[00:08:33] at the time as a college student on Gen X, Michael had done it on Gen Z. And so it was
[00:08:37] really fun to start to think about how do these two different perspectives kind of come
[00:08:40] together? So a lot of Gen X and millennials as bosses and then Gen Z as they kind of
[00:08:45] enter the workforce. That is such an awesome connection that you all have. I know when I
[00:08:51] meet people from my same college, I'm like, I immediately just like we get each other.
[00:08:55] So it's fantastic that you have that and you have that parallel experience from,
[00:09:00] you know, different times in being in college but having different similar paths. And I love
[00:09:05] that you all found the space that you wanted to go to in this research was what they want
[00:09:10] from their bosses, what they want from work because a lot of people tried to let's just
[00:09:14] say future forecast that but we know that it takes a little bit of time of a generation being in the
[00:09:19] workforce to really, you know, try on some different hats, try on some different environments to say
[00:09:24] this is what I want and kind of in that exploration. And really let's start to think
[00:09:29] about that. We've learned really what motivated your study, what drew you to this topic.
[00:09:34] Now let's get into what should we be gleaning from the study? What are the things that
[00:09:39] leaders and organizations should be concerned about when we think about Gen Z in the workplace
[00:09:43] based on what you found in your recent study? Yeah, so we found five core challenges that exist
[00:09:49] between Gen Z and their bosses. That's important for bosses and Gen Z alike to know. Number one,
[00:09:56] empathy is more important to Gen Zers than their bosses think it is. Number two,
[00:10:02] Gen Zers feel they're not getting the mental health support they need in the workplace.
[00:10:07] Number three, both Gen Zers and their bosses feel that Gen Zers are under-prepared for their
[00:10:12] jobs. Number four, work is less important to the personal identities of Gen Zers than it is for their
[00:10:18] bosses. And number five, Gen Z wants time off as a reward but bosses as of now prefer traditional
[00:10:26] forms of recognizing employees and we can dive into stats on any of those. That's the five.
[00:10:32] So I think that the one that jumped out to me the most right when Michael talked about the top
[00:10:38] five was really that first one and we really started to think about it as the empathy gap
[00:10:43] where Gen Zers prioritize empathy from their boss as the second attribute that they're most looking
[00:10:49] for. And where their bosses who we in our study which was 2,000 members of Gen Z and 600 bosses
[00:10:55] of Gen X and Millennials prioritize at some distant fifth. So we started to see that there was this
[00:11:02] gap that Gen Z really does want a boss to show up with more empathy and we can hypothesize why,
[00:11:08] starting work almost entirely remotely, starting work during a pandemic, having less hands-on or
[00:11:14] in-person experiences. But that was one of the biggest challenges that really struck me as a
[00:11:19] leader of organizations that we do need to be thinking about what the perspective is from
[00:11:25] more empathetically for our members of Gen Z. I find that that is so interesting because I've
[00:11:29] got a good friend Sophie Wade past podcast guest has done a ton of work in this idea
[00:11:35] not just within the Gen Z and generational space around the importance of empathy in the workplace
[00:11:40] but in general right and how empathy within organizations is so necessary arguably more
[00:11:45] today than it ever has been. And I think the thing that you all are starting to get at is
[00:11:52] empathy is necessary. It is, you're just you're triangulating what Sophie has found in her
[00:11:57] research as well. And what kind of sticks out to me though when you think about empathy
[00:12:03] is this idea that like it requires understanding, like it requires a motivation to actually want to
[00:12:09] know and be in it with somebody which is sometimes counter to what we would consider
[00:12:15] productivity or all of the things but to me it's that investment in the person that you're
[00:12:20] working with that sometimes feels like it should be very obvious but is clearly something that
[00:12:26] Gen Z is seeing from a different perspective than those who are potentially hiring them,
[00:12:30] onboarding them, managing and supervising them. And when that kind of runs out what does that leave
[00:12:36] for individuals from Gen Z that are showing up to work? I think that you know I love that you
[00:12:44] all have condensed these kind of the findings into the five challenges and you've laid those
[00:12:50] out. What are some of really if we don't address those challenges because some people say
[00:12:56] challenge is a problem, challenge is something that we're going to hit friction against but I
[00:13:01] think we're probably all in the same mindset that like it could be avoided. If we don't address some
[00:13:06] of those challenges what do you think are some of the pitfalls organizations could experience or
[00:13:10] leaders could experience by not navigating these challenges successfully? Well you know I mentioned
[00:13:16] the empathy gap one of the other ones that really caught my eye from the data perspective is
[00:13:21] that Gen Z has indicated that 28% of them have suffered from their mental health has been negatively
[00:13:28] impacted by their bosses. And that's something to kind of think about so it's about one in three
[00:13:33] right so you mentioned you have Gen Z is on your team I imagine many of your listeners also have
[00:13:38] Gen Z as our team so think about one in three feel like that they've had their their mental
[00:13:43] health impacted and there's two things I think are important about that one is a comfort using
[00:13:48] the language of mental health which is instructive I think for all of us in the workplace but also
[00:13:54] the idea that it's the boss's responsibility to be thinking about that impact that they're having
[00:13:59] on their team members, their workforce, their colleagues and to your point it's not just
[00:14:04] about productivity it's about the whole person and how to think about that so I think if we
[00:14:09] don't address these challenges we're going to see you know more and more of that sort of mental
[00:14:14] health issues and then also how that impacts retention, motivation at work you know likelihood to
[00:14:22] kind of stay for the long term. Amelia to that point the idea that mental health and then like
[00:14:27] there's even this like link to one of your other challenges that you identified was this
[00:14:32] idea of identity of work right and maybe there is that piece of maybe there is that piece of
[00:14:40] protecting their mental health by kind of separating identity from work a little bit
[00:14:44] more than previous generations and again that's just me theorizing but Michael I'd love to hear
[00:14:49] from you from your end and you know your very Gen Z perspective and speaking for your peers
[00:14:55] in some cases that if we don't we as leaders and other people leading organizations don't pay
[00:15:01] attention and navigate these challenges successfully what are we at risk of really?
[00:15:05] Yeah I love how you focus on that personal identity point because I also see that as
[00:15:10] now you know growing up on social media a very entrepreneurial generation seeing all the other
[00:15:15] opportunities we have both in traditional work and outside of that I think if we aren't addressing
[00:15:21] these challenges if we aren't viewing Gen Zers as full human beings they have a lot of other
[00:15:27] opportunities that they can take on and they don't necessarily have to stay in those roles
[00:15:31] if they don't feel like their needs are being met so I think in the short term companies that
[00:15:35] don't address these will see a lot of turnover and the long term if your company is not one that
[00:15:40] Gen Z wants to work for and Gen Z is making up a progressively bigger percentage of the workforce
[00:15:46] it's going to be difficult for your company to thrive or even survive.
[00:15:49] And I think that you've you're kind of looking at both like the here and now of like
[00:15:53] Gen Z as options I think that this generation probably has more options whether it's traditional
[00:15:59] traditional employment like that nine to five working for an employer or side hustle or kind of
[00:16:03] like DIYing and pulling it all together kind of jobs but there's more options in the here and now
[00:16:09] but in the long term it's kind of setting the trajectory of like Gen Z might not want to work
[00:16:14] for these companies that historically have relied on let's just say younger career
[00:16:18] professionals or earlier career professionals to fulfill in some of those roles and
[00:16:22] realistically the work needs to get done. So I think that that's an interesting kind of
[00:16:27] play that it's going I think to challenge maybe more traditionally minded organizations
[00:16:33] to think differently about their newer professionals, newer hires, newer employees or
[00:16:39] recent graduates. Amelia do you have something to add?
[00:16:43] Well I just want to jump in on that because I think I agree with everything you both have
[00:16:46] just said and Gen Z is going to be vocal about it right so it's not just that they're going
[00:16:51] to leave your organization or vote with their feet and go do something else
[00:16:54] but they're going to take to social media where they do their social media natives
[00:16:59] and have grown up with the idea of having a voice and they're going to tell other people about it
[00:17:03] too so I think it's not just you're going to lose out on that talent but then you're going to
[00:17:07] have that kind of you know potential kind of brand damage of a very vocal population
[00:17:12] talking about your organization. Absolutely and they know how to wield the internet probably
[00:17:17] better than anybody else to create a social movement I mean look what they've done with
[00:17:20] the Stalers lift situation on tour right I say you always want Gen Z on your good side that's
[00:17:25] like always my goal it's a force to be reckoned with in my opinion in a very good way you know
[00:17:30] something that I'm just drawing this connection to is some of the work that my research partner and
[00:17:33] I've done around like what Gen Z is looking for in the workplace from a let's just say like
[00:17:39] how they would describe their work environment and loyalty and trust are very high on their
[00:17:43] list and loyalty and trust when I think about that kind of connecting to the work that you
[00:17:47] all have done it's built over time it's built through relationship and I don't think that
[00:17:52] employees are just necessarily going to all of a sudden be like I'm loyal to this company
[00:17:56] because the paycheck right because there's clearly a lot of places willing to give them the paycheck
[00:18:00] and for the loyalty in the trust piece that requires that that element of empathy that
[00:18:06] relationship that investment piece because you don't just show up and trust someone on day one
[00:18:11] right and then the same concept of leaving I think is important that are they leaving on
[00:18:16] good terms and as you've identified the loyalty piece of if they feel like their loyalty has been
[00:18:22] betrayed what does that look like in the long term in terms of brand for organizations and so
[00:18:29] I think there's a lot of just major implications for the study you all have done
[00:18:33] and how that's going to really fit into this like understanding Gen Z in this space
[00:18:38] we've identified some of the challenges I really love to know what are the benefits
[00:18:43] of this generation in the workplace what are the things that this generation is bringing to the
[00:18:48] table that while we need to pay attention to the challenges or potentially the disconnects that
[00:18:52] we're seeing where the areas that we need also pay attention to the strengths the really the assets
[00:18:59] that Gen Z is bringing to the workforce. I think there's three things that really stick out for
[00:19:05] me on Gen Z two we've touched on going to add one more one very entrepreneurial generation
[00:19:11] two very vocal and three relating to the two very purposeful as a generation and I think these all
[00:19:18] relate to growing up on social media seeing the ills of the world and at a younger age maybe
[00:19:23] not having as much of an opportunity to change these things but still being exposed to them now
[00:19:28] getting to the age where they can make major change and they want to be vocal about it
[00:19:32] because they're used to their voice mattering on social media so when they get to these companies
[00:19:36] they're at the age they can make a change they want a seat at the table and they're going to at
[00:19:41] least fight for one and if they don't get one likely go elsewhere. Michael I think that's a great
[00:19:46] point that some people will kind of sometimes misunderstand around an entrepreneurial spirit
[00:19:50] or mindset is that it doesn't necessarily always mean that this generation every single one of them
[00:19:54] wants to go start their own business but how do you harness what is I think very key in an
[00:19:59] entrepreneurial mindset is innovation and desire to create change and that is probably what I see
[00:20:05] that personally like I almost sometimes like to just be like you know like rules are off what do we
[00:20:11] want to improve and like hand that over to some of the young people I work with to be like
[00:20:15] we've been doing it this way for five years help me fix it and I think that that can feel scary
[00:20:20] at first and vulnerable at first for leaders but really I think the payoff is really there
[00:20:25] to engage that entrepreneurial mindset within an organization I think has so many benefits
[00:20:30] that leaders can be looking out for and seeing within this cohort. Amelia what do you what do you
[00:20:36] think what are some of these greatest benefits or assets where we should be looking for these
[00:20:40] Gen Z employees and professionals? Well I'm smiling because I feel like you've touched on it
[00:20:46] and in a lot of what I do is really around the field of strategy and innovation and the
[00:20:51] fact that Gen Z are about to make up about a third of our workforce I love the fact that
[00:20:56] they don't have preconceived notions or what we might call orthodoxies for how things have always
[00:21:01] been done around here and to be able to tap into a much more creative mindset you know less about
[00:21:08] the kind of existing rules and really kind of much more kind of problem solving so I often like
[00:21:13] to say like whenever you're in a room and you're challenged with okay well what's the future
[00:21:17] of the workforce or what's this problem going to look like in 10 years you absolutely have
[00:21:22] to have Gen Z in the room and at that table because they are that future of the workforce like how
[00:21:26] how it's inconceivable that we'd be trying to solve those issues without kind of Gen Z kind of in the
[00:21:33] room very active in the conversation. And I think that it's giving them the voice there's I've never
[00:21:38] once said hey you Gen Z-er I want your opinion and they're like no um there's always this space
[00:21:44] of like if you're going to give me the microphone I will share about me and my peers like never
[00:21:47] once have they turned down the opportunity to advocate for something either for themselves or
[00:21:51] other people and sometimes I feel like the silliest consulting I give people as they're like how do
[00:21:55] I understand Gen Z I'm like let's go ask the ones you work with uh to start like as a starter
[00:21:59] could be a helpful place um get to know those people and probably be really helpful.
[00:22:03] But I think that as you've pointed out this idea that like solving for problems without
[00:22:07] involving the people was potentially a misstep that we've had for the last two generational
[00:22:12] cohorts was this idea of like leaders are paid to know things and learn things about
[00:22:17] their people and we thought we knew a lot about millennials we thought we knew a lot about Gen X
[00:22:21] but we were doing like a lot of guessing and so I love where we're at with this generation
[00:22:25] to be able to do exactly what we're doing with like our resident Gen Z Michael to be like
[00:22:30] tell us about your life tell like share about your experience how do we improve it um and
[00:22:35] bring that into the space. And so I think lessons learned of the past welcome the people
[00:22:41] into the conversation to provide some creative problem solving and see what goes from there.
[00:22:46] Yeah I just want to say in terms of harnessing that entrepreneurial energy
[00:22:49] I want to give Amelia a shout out because she did it perfectly by bringing me in and
[00:22:53] allowing me the opportunity to do this research to speak on this topic.
[00:22:57] And I think it relates to like you know big companies there's a lot of work that has
[00:23:00] to get done that's not going to be personalized that just is what it is
[00:23:03] but anytime leaders can give Gen Z years those entrepreneurial opportunities on the side
[00:23:09] that both help the business but allow a young employee to feel more autonomy than
[00:23:13] the otherwise would more responsibility and allow them to run with something
[00:23:17] I think they'll see huge benefits on that. Absolutely and that's I think
[00:23:20] something that as earlier career professionals those are the things you
[00:23:24] remember when someone believed in you and you had that autonomy to go do something
[00:23:28] especially for something that you've been training for for you know maybe all of college
[00:23:31] or those first few years in a new role and so I really think that uh that's a good
[00:23:36] nod to good leadership and fantastic to see that within a boss that you have.
[00:23:43] Michael I've got a you know more distinct direct question for you and I hate to put
[00:23:47] you on the spot for your entire generation but that's what happens sometimes as someone who
[00:23:51] is a Gen Z professional you've also been very involved with this research.
[00:23:57] What of the findings resonated the most with you in your career so far where did
[00:24:02] you see the most scene and some of the findings from Delight Study?
[00:24:07] Well we found that half of Gen Z years feel like they haven't been trained well enough to be
[00:24:12] successful when they enter the workforce. I wouldn't necessarily say I felt underprepared but I will
[00:24:16] say starting in a hybrid environment not getting to pick up on some of those soft skills that
[00:24:23] would have been obvious for previous generations like how to interact with clients in a meeting
[00:24:27] stuff like that that when you're with your team every single day you pick up naturally.
[00:24:32] I and a lot of my co-workers didn't get those opportunities however so I can see why Gen Z years
[00:24:38] starting hybrid or virtual would feel underprepared however Deloitte does a great and this is not
[00:24:44] an advertisement they just do well here uh they do a great job with what they call moments that
[00:24:49] matter as in when they bring everyone together they go for high touch memorable high value
[00:24:55] experiences that allow people to learn a lot meet a lot of people so that we are getting a
[00:25:00] lot of benefit as young employees even if we can't be together every single day.
[00:25:05] I've heard that from other people so not just you Michael I've heard it from other
[00:25:09] people in passing as well that there's a lot of good work that's done not only in your
[00:25:13] onboarding but your continual development which I think is is really important and
[00:25:17] it's great to see here that you have seen yourself in that and I want to bring up
[00:25:21] that point that you made around what might seem obvious to previous generations.
[00:25:26] That is a big trap that we get into a lot of times of saying like why don't these young people
[00:25:30] know this like why didn't they learn this and you pointed out a really important context is
[00:25:35] that context does change for each generation and that's such an important context of those
[00:25:40] early years where many Gen Z years even those who maybe graduated before the pandemic were so
[00:25:47] early in their career where we're going to offices we're observing our coworkers we're
[00:25:51] observing our bosses we're observing leaders in what is considered culturally like appropriate
[00:25:56] within within a workspace and so I think that that's such a good reminder for people that are
[00:26:02] in charge of onboarding and training is that that space for skill development
[00:26:07] interpersonal relationships and all of that kind of stuff not only benefits are newer
[00:26:11] incoming employees but a freshen up for everybody. I'm thankful that you brought that point up
[00:26:19] so thank you. Milly I'd love to kind of go over to you I know that you supervise a number of Gen Z
[00:26:26] and you oversee probably some really stellar professionals where are you seeing the findings
[00:26:33] resonate the most with those that you work with but then also what advice might you have
[00:26:38] for people that are potentially in similar roles maybe older generations or different
[00:26:42] generations that lead Gen Z in the workplace. So Michael and I have this conversation a lot
[00:26:47] about the fact that I'm keenly aware that my first few years and working experience
[00:26:53] were entirely different than Michael's and other members of Gen Z who definitely who started work
[00:26:59] remotely or started during the pandemic and I think that sort of reminder like that mindset
[00:27:05] of leaders where you know oftentimes we think like oh yeah I can you know I did I I climbed that hill
[00:27:11] I did your job I took notes on those meetings and you sort of feel like yeah I've been there and I've
[00:27:16] done that I have to remind myself I have not been there I have not done that not in the same way
[00:27:21] that we're asking Gen Z to do it today. So I think that's the first thing Megan is just to
[00:27:26] remember that the context which you referenced earlier is different and for me that's almost
[00:27:31] the first marker of if you remember the context is different then you can have a little bit of
[00:27:36] empathy which goes back to one of the things that we've learned in our research of what might be
[00:27:41] challenging about this for the individual how might this be harder what assumptions might I
[00:27:45] be making about what their preferences might be and where might they need a little bit of help.
[00:27:50] So I think it's just it's almost like that's that that moment to kind of pause
[00:27:54] and to acknowledge that that person on you know in a lot of cases the other end of a
[00:27:58] video call you may need a little bit more perspective than you might have otherwise
[00:28:03] needed when you first started. Absolutely I think that that is such a good
[00:28:11] I don't want to say reminder because this might be new to some people is really that point that
[00:28:16] putting our we can't put ourselves in the same shoes but we can at least go back and
[00:28:20] reflect on the time when we were in a similar phase of life right like we can't
[00:28:23] really go back and say like let me go hop into the shoes of a 24 year old relatively recent graduate
[00:28:29] in their potentially first full-time career kind of situation but certainly identifying how the
[00:28:36] world has changed and even just in a year two three four years the world of work has changed
[00:28:43] and it's very different when we're doing that as our first job potentially out of college or
[00:28:47] first full-time career it versus you know going through that change as a mid-career professional
[00:28:54] or someone that has spent a little bit more time in that space so I really appreciate that sentiment.
[00:29:01] I have one last question for both of you and I ask every guest it's kind of like your exit
[00:29:06] ticket if you will what is your favorite thing about the Gen Z professionals in the workplace
[00:29:10] whether the ones you work with are the ones that you get to observe in their work.
[00:29:13] I've harped on this but it is my favorite thing I really appreciate their entrepreneurial nature
[00:29:19] their desire to go and get it and how big they are into taking on projects running with them
[00:29:26] and you know fighting for autonomy now that is gonna like there are going to be some
[00:29:31] difficulties at the beginning at these big companies when you have that mindset but
[00:29:36] I think in the long term it's a very positive thing to have that internal locus of control
[00:29:41] and desire to go and make something of yourself. I love that and I think it's that tenacity piece
[00:29:49] right and I've certainly seen it in the Gen Z students and young people that I work with
[00:29:53] that once I set them up to succeed they're like just full steam ahead again it's that loyalty
[00:29:57] that trust that belief that they can go do something I deeply appreciate that about Gen Z
[00:30:03] as well. Mealy what about you? Well so Michael knows this about me but given that I care
[00:30:09] so much about the experiences that we deliver right and how it feels to the other individual
[00:30:15] on the other end of the table the other end of the call one of the things I love about Gen Z is
[00:30:19] that if you are willing to genuinely ask they will tell you how to make something better
[00:30:25] right they will tell you what better would look like and so for me that's a gift right to
[00:30:31] say you know from to be able to kind of get that kind of feedback and that ongoing kind of
[00:30:35] learning I feel like I learned so much from Gen Z and one of the things that we've also talked about
[00:30:39] is how to think about that reverse or mentoring or that sort of peer-to-peer mentoring where so
[00:30:45] that's the relationship Michael and I have where obviously there's things that I can share with
[00:30:49] Michael given my 20 years in the career of being a magic consultant but I feel like when
[00:30:53] I'm open to it there's as much that I can learn from Michael and from his peers
[00:30:57] about what does it mean to kind of you know work in the kind of in the workforce today so
[00:31:03] those are some of the things that I love that is um I mean I feel like there's a lot of people
[00:31:08] that wish they worked for you once they hear this so and we got one sentiment we got one
[00:31:14] real-life case study that is affirmed that but that is such a good thing that many people can
[00:31:19] probably learn from is this idea of you know we've all got something to learn and we've
[00:31:24] all got something to teach somebody else and that is I think a lesson that many leaders
[00:31:30] in our world can stand to listen to and I hope that it it does find people so certainly
[00:31:37] want to thank you both for being here but before we formally go we will certainly be
[00:31:41] linking to your wonderful study in the show notes and making sure that it gets into the
[00:31:47] hands of the people that need to read it the fellow net data nerds like me out there
[00:31:50] that want to give it a full glance but if people want to keep up with either of you
[00:31:54] what is your preferred method of people reaching out whether that is a social media platform or
[00:31:59] what is your preferred contact so that I'm sure people have questions and they might want to
[00:32:04] connect with you I'm pretty active on LinkedIn at Michael Pankowski I'm sure my name will be
[00:32:09] posted somewhere on this so feel free to add me ask any Gen Z questions I love answering that stuff
[00:32:15] yeah and you can also find me on LinkedIn Megan and the study also published on our
[00:32:20] Deloitte digital website as well as our human experience signature issue website
[00:32:24] well I will make sure that all the friends get links to both your linkedins your lovely study
[00:32:32] and thank you both for being here I know it's always a gift for me to be able to sit with
[00:32:36] people that one care about the same things that I do and two love to jam out about research so
[00:32:42] really this has been a lot of fun for me and I know that our listeners are also thankful
[00:32:47] that you could be here to share your insights so thank you both again thank you it was so fun
[00:32:51] yeah that was fantastic thank you McDonald's presents burger reviews by hamburger today's review
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[00:33:31] another thank you to Amelia and Michael the insights they shared have helped to reframe how we think
[00:33:36] about gen z in the workplace but also at Gen Z is thinking about in their careers the conversation
[00:33:41] about empathy certainly resonated with me and I believe it's something that all organizations
[00:33:45] can benefit from while a single boss or manager might not have the ability to transform an
[00:33:50] entire company they do have the ability to foster an environment within their team
[00:33:55] and with employees that prioritizes empathy I truly think that empathy allows us to seek to
[00:34:01] understand this new generation and is what will set apart the organizations and leaders who will
[00:34:06] thrive with generation z we still have some great new episodes ahead in season five with
[00:34:11] fantastic guests to share their stories and insights you won't want to miss it as we continue
[00:34:15] to explore Gen Z in the workplace if you haven't yet hit subscribe so you can get notified
[00:34:21] when new episodes become available and while you're at it go ahead and share this episode with a
[00:34:25] friend or colleague this is a more the merrier kind of podcast as always you can reach out to me
[00:34:31] with any suggestions for topics or guests you want to learn from and about I can be reached
[00:34:35] on my website Megan M grace dot com and you can find me on instagram threads and linkedin
[00:34:40] at Megan M grace and thank you to the team that helped bring this episode together pre-production
[00:34:46] support was provided by Jessica f. Stafios and editing the supported by Leah Kramer thank you
[00:34:53] again for stopping by for this episode and the season so far let's continue this conversation
[00:34:59] we'll chat soon
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