HR & Payroll Tech Marketplace Events Recap (Summer 2026, June)

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_03] Welcome everyone to another episode of the HR & Payroll 2.0 Podcast. I'm Pete Tiliakos and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome Julie.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_01] Thanks so much, Pete. And I know you have been go, go, go. So have I. And so it's great to finally get a chance to get back together and time to share.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, back like we never left. I feel like I've been around the world. I've been home maybe four days in the last two months. So it's been a lot, but we've got so much to talk about. I think we're going to make it almost a double episode here. Yeah. Do a bit of an events episode and then maybe a bit of a news with a few other events mixed in there, too. So a lot going on out there in HCM. And that's what I thought we'd talk today.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_01] All right. Well, without further ado, why don't we dive in?

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_03] All right. All right. I think we're doing what? What did I say before this? Five?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01] We're going to do four today.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_03] Four. All right. Yeah, we got Prism HR. Had a great event. I was able to go to Prism HR Live. SAP SuccessFactors did a unique event out in Cavallo in San Francisco. They called it an analyst exchange. I think it was an HCM analyst exchange. Not a product update. We got a little product taste from what they released at Sapphire. But really what we did was we really got around and ideated with them on the future of work. And I thought it was a lot of fun. So I'm going to talk about that.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_03] Cornerstone. Cornerstone On Demand, formerly, I guess you could call them. Had a good update for the analysts and their clients up in New York. And that came with some new products. As well as UKG. We did a virtual analyst day this year. Not in person in spring like we normally do. And yeah, tons of updates there too. So I thought I'd give everybody some updates here on these four and see what you think as well.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01] Okay. That sounds great. And I think we're starting with Prism, which was the latest one, right? That you just got back from.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_03] Yep. Yep. Yep. We're going to talk about Prism here. Prism HR Live. And I want to kind of maybe do a little bit of a background on this one, Julie, because maybe not everyone knows Prism. Maybe not everyone knows the PEO world. And so I thought I'd maybe just give a little bit of background there. So Prism HR is a major entity and acquisition and platform of the venture employer services, venture HR as you probably know them, portfolio.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03] And venture, we talked about this with Matt Vady, who did an excellent podcast from the Payroll and Podcast. He's the CEO and owner or founder, I guess, of Guru HR. And he basically did a really great breakdown on how venture has gone about building their business. And it is very unique. And it's a great podcast if you get a chance to listen to that. And certainly check out Matt's episode with us. I thought it was a great, great episode on going to market right now in the SMB space.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_03] But venture is very much building a one-stop shop of SMB-focused solutions. And that starts at the core with the Prism HR platform, which is really the indirect side of their business. So they basically go to market in two ways directly through what they would call the venture HR side, which has a certain number of products. And then they go to market indirectly with Prism, which 60, I think 65 percent of the PEOs in America utilize that platform as their underlying infrastructure.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03] So it's a very important platform for that community. So, again, just a huge ecosystem. 112 acquisitions now, Julie. Wow. Wow. Quite impressive. I mean, at the time Matt came on, I think it was 100 or they had just broke 100. And all of them very purposeful. It's not a bunch of foolishness, right? It's not a bunch of acquiring to acquire.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:03:33] Yeah.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. It's very much building out their entities. It's building out their capabilities. Think about something like Virgil HR, which is a compliance solution that is woven across their capabilities. It's highly adopted around the market by most of the HCMs in terms of offering it in their marketplace, if not partnering. So a really nice addition there. They bought Namely. I don't know if you guys remember the SMB solution Namely a few years ago. So they own quite a few things.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03] But what I think is really interesting is that capability, all of those 112 also include various different BPOs and legal entities around the world. So that's helped empower a good bit of their global offering. And that was a notable announcement there. Before I get to that, Julie, just to give you some perspective of their size, they are processing about 58. Let me look at this real quickly. I want to make sure I get this right. They're doing about 58 billion in payroll processing. So that kind of tells you the size of an organization that we're talking about.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_03] 4.2 million worksite employees. I believe that's globally. And I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of, I'll find their number of clients. I can't find that here. But still, a massive, massive footprint, right? There's a lot going on here. It's not small stuff. What I think is really cool about them is, if you recall, they made two really great global acquisitions. Kind of quietly, post-pandemic. So around 21, 22, they picked up Solvo Global.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_03] Solvo is really a, and I can't remember where they're based. I want to say South America. They are a global staffing solution and provider. I actually met them and found out about them by way of one of Venture's competitors actually utilizing Solvo post-Venture to staff and help them support some interesting locations they were trying to do some things in. So I thought that was kind of a nice little vote of confidence, right?

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03] But more importantly, what that gave them was a capability to help source talent globally. And if you know Venture even further, you know they bought Listow Global. Shout out to Freddie and Tyler over at Listow. My friends over there have been following them since they launched. And that had rooted their EOR solution from a tech perspective and a legal entity and obviously the infrastructure of an EOR. And bringing that together with Solvo is really, really interesting and differentiated.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03] And here's, I posted about this yesterday, but here's why I love this. I'm the biggest complainer about, a lover and complainer about EOR, right? I've been all over this industry for 10 years. I'm still advising many of them in the market. And what I have complained about a lot, Julie, you will notice, sameness, right? There's a lot of sameness. There's a lot of EOR for the sake of EOR. And I would argue, when I look at what Venture is doing, going back to being very calculated and very, very strategic with these acquisitions,

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_03] is they have fundamentally said, look, we don't actually need to do EOR. We're doing EOR because it's the right thing for our customers and our base. And their base is the small market, small business. It's the PEO providers out there trying to power a competitive offering. And what's front of mind right now, global hiring, compliance, and the ability to actually move quickly into unique locations. Right. For that small market. So they're not going into it with this idea that they have to, you know, be the biggest EOR on the planet.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03] They don't got to fight head to head with those EORs. And they don't necessarily need to worry about the churn, right? They're more looking at the customer and saying, how do we be more of your stack? How do we be more of the things that you need so that you don't have to exit our walls and bring more value and be more sticky? It's brilliant. Now, I think what's really differentiated is most of the EORs in the marketplace are excellent at employing, paying, and helping you manage employees at scale or globally at scale. Where they're not that great is finding that talent to begin with.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_03] You often have to bring that talent, bring that capability to or bring that human resource to the table. So what Solvo gives Prism HR Global is what they're calling it, is branding it, is the ability to now find pay or excuse me, employ pay and manage. And so that's different, right? When you think about the fact that and there's been advancements in the market on this. Some of the EORs have turned some things on. I know Deal now has an ATS in their system.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_03] But that capability of actually finding those workers is really, really pivotal. And I think that's just a nice pairing. So, again, a very differentiated solution that doesn't have to go out there and sword fight and deal with the churn problem and deal with all of that and can really just grow opportunistically with their customers. And they are. And I think that's really, really cool. So I like the way they're going about that one.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, that's interesting. And I've been doing some advisor, in fact, some strategy work in the SMB space, right? Yeah. And there's a role for PEO. There's a role for managed payroll. And then there's, you know, a role for EOR. And those different ecosystems don't always overlap each other very well.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01] So, you know, what strikes me about it, you know, besides all the points that you're mentioning about why that makes a lot of sense for them is just PEO and EOR are more often than not kind of separate universes, right? Just one domestic and the other have some differences. I work a lot with companies that want to try to understand those differences. But when you think about a provider that can do both, you start to get into a much narrower, you know, subset of folks that could actually handle both sides of the coin.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01] So I think that's really cool.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. PEO is a very, or EOR is a very similar construct to the PEO world. Now, let me just explain for those of you scoring at home that might not be in the U.S. PEO is referring to professional employer organizations. EOR is employer of record. EOR tends to be more of a global, you know, going outside of borders. PEO is a uniquely U.S. construct. It is similar in construct, but it is not exactly the same and not exactly legal everywhere. And I know there's, I've seen global PEO and I've seen some other things.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03] But fundamentally, PEO in America, think of it as, look, I think it's, I worked in PEO. I came up in one of the largest PEOs in America in the 90s. I think they might have actually been one of the first. The Mullis family founded staff leasing, what became Jevity and then later became Trinet down the line. What you have to think of it is as is certainly a very HR administration heavy service, but it is more importantly an employment model.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_03] You're essentially swapping the leasing of your employees over to the, what would be the provider in this case, say venture, who would fundamentally lease your employees back to you at a fee, at a PEPM. And that PEPM is loaded with much more than just your payroll costs and your benefit costs. It's going to be loaded with things like workers' compensation insurance, which is required in probably what, like 48 states, Julie, something like that, 50 states. Yeah, 48, I think it is.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03] I think there's two or three that don't require it or you have to buy it from the state, which is just fundamentally, forget payroll. If you don't have workers' comp, you can get in a lot of trouble in opera. I don't even know that you're allowed to operate in most states. And then you think about the fact that like buying that sort of insurance or buying even benefits or 401k is hard to do when you're a little company, right? Especially when you don't know what to do from a compliance perspective. You don't know payroll. You don't know HR. You don't have a handbook. You don't know, right?

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_03] It's easier to often go to an organization like a PEO and transfer all of that liability and work over to them at a fee and get all of those buying power and insurances and 401k like a big employer would have. But you're fundamentally getting it at a bundled sort of repeatable, predictable price, right? And you're getting it through an umbrella that could conceivably buy at scale versus you buying sort of by the drink, if you will, as a small employer.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03] Now, what the problem is with PEO often or the complaint about PEO is that it is expensive on paper. But you think about what all you're buying with that. It's more than just HR services. It's an employment model. It's a transfer of liability and a lot of organizations will ride with that through their growth and then hit an inflection point where it becomes too expensive or just makes sense to do it in-house.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03] But to me, it's a no-brainer when you're a young, brand new company trying to do the right thing and you don't want that misstep of blowing up your company week one, month one. It's a great idea to get a partner like that. And that's where the PEO model comes in. Yeah.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01] And you know my pet peeve in the market is just differentiating those that are EORs and working as an employer of record, which is where you specifically don't have an entity in a country.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01] And differentiating that from just folks that are doing global payroll. And, you know, in fact, we're seeing all kinds of collapsing and blurring of lines as folks buy into some capabilities one way and the other. And the growth that you're describing from venture is actually much more aligned to the idea that EOR is EOR. We're not trying to blend it across employees and other payroll models. Yeah.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I think it's a value add, right? It's a value add for them. And look, I think you have to look at EOR as a strategic lever, right? It's the speed to market. It's the agility of moving somewhere fast and in line with the speed of your strategy and supporting that. But you want to do it in a compliant way. You want to do it the right way and you don't want to, you know, stumble your starting point. For sure. So, Julia, a couple more things here on Prism. They announced a couple of big products besides Prism HR Global.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03] Again, EOR available now to all of their customers. It was there. I think it's just now been branded, really.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03] Two big announcements. The comms hub, they put a lot of, they're putting a lot of emphasis and effort into communicating with the workforce. And, you know, remember, you've got a lot of service providers using this platform. So there's a lot of communication needs there too. And then, of course, they announced Pi, which is the Prism HR intelligence. And as you can imagine, that is AI woven across multiple different types of use cases across the employee experience.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03] And, again, the goal there is to help those PEO organizations utilizing that software to administer support for their clients, but also give the employee a great end managers and leaders a great experience. So it's everything from onboarding to applicant tracking to performance management. All use cases are kind of scattered across the HCM spectrum. So a lot of work there too.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01] It's great that SMBs are going to get the benefit and the lift of some of that focus on experience. Because oftentimes that just comes with scale. And, in fact, in this case, by the way that Prism is doing it, they're actually bringing that to very small-sized organizations.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Also, by the way, I picked this up when I was doing some of my prep here. I had forgotten about this. I had written it down but forgotten it. You know, Venture even announced, I think it was in late May. And this kind of goes along with what we talked about with Matt Vady on that podcast about sector-specific or niche-specific payrolls.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01] The riches are in the niches, I think he said.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_03] Yes, that's exactly the words he used. And I think he's right. You're seeing more of this. But they introduced Venture Employer Services, I think they're calling it Venture Sports and Entertainment, which is an HR product for sports and entertainment. You know, that's a world I'm very fond of. It's very complicated. It's very one-off. It's not exactly the way the rest of the world does things. And so, yeah, I think this is interesting and more indicative along the lines of how they're looking to support their portfolio and their ecosystem with specialized solutions. So, there you go.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03] Makes sense for them. Okay. Let's shift over to SAP. Yeah. I went out to the, I think they called it, I can't remember what they called it. I think they called it a analyst. I can't remember what they called it exactly. I apologize for that. It was an HCM get-together of HCM analysts, kind of around the world. And we really did some think tanking kind of work. I thought it was refreshing. We didn't really talk a lot of product. You know, they just did Sapphire. They just did a couple of other things. But I will tell you this, man.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_03] Joule is their AI, right, inside of SuccessFactors. I know you've got a lot of SuccessFactor clients. But, yeah, look, Joule is getting stronger. The use cases are getting deeper. It's really getting, you know, so much more agentic. And one of the things I think is really cool, Dan Beck and the team talked to us about how they're using forward deployed engineers. That's a, FTEs is something you're going to hear more and more and more. If you want to read a little bit about what those are, go back and look at how Palantir used those to scale. There's some pros and cons to it. There's some love-hate for it.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_03] But what we're really talking about is the, you know, the forward deployment and embedding of actual engineers from the software company helping you side-by-side work with you and co-innovate. Basically, that's what we're talking about. You're seeing everybody do it. UKG is talking about it. SAP is talking about it. And they're doing some very, very thoughtful and really interesting work, Julie, with some of the enterprises. Right. You know, I can't say some of the names here for NDA reasons. A lot of the vendors don't like us to talk to the customer without the customer.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03] But just suffice it to say organizations that you would very much probably use in your everyday life and you're very familiar with are doing some really cool things. Like, you know, addressing manual efforts or addressing, you know, knowledge-based information to help with better talent decisions. You know, just things along that line. So, really, really cool. What I thought was fun about the week was is we put down the talk about the market and the insights about what people are seeing. And we really just talked about what should HR be.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03] Fun, right? It was really fun because, you know, I think that right now there's a lot of folks that are excited about AI. They're doing things with AI. But are we cramming the past into the future and expecting some different outcome and really just amplifying what we've always been doing wrong? Maybe, or not wrong, but just could have done better or couldn't do before. And so I love that.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_03] I think it was really nice to sit around with so many superstars, peers of mine and bounce around these ideas of how things should work and how we should be supporting the future workforce. And so just some really cool stuff coming out of there around. And they've got some great data science. You know, one of their lead researchers was in there helping us. And just some really interesting work they're doing in research. So I would tell you to look and keep an eye on what SAP puts out around this.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_03] But yeah, just a lot of work going on around the solutions that they have. Of course, Smart Recruiters was a big ad last year. And yeah, just really talking a lot about what the future could be at that event. So it was very refreshing.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01] I think we're going to see a lot more of that, Pete. Just as thought leaders or providers are starting to try to figure out exactly how to best tap into and make AI useful. But beyond useful, revolutionary, right? And it's drumming of all sorts of different perspectives. You could almost guess the perspective based on who and where they are in the ecosystem, why they might say, oh, you know, process first, then AI tech or, you know, dive in and orchestrate versus, you know, just embed.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01] And so we're going to see all sorts of prognostications, I think, on what should HR be? How should AI, you know, most help enable that? And yeah, so that will be certainly fun to watch. And they won't be the only guys that are out there trying to tell everybody how it's all coming together, right?

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03] No, no. And I mean, the HCMs have such a big responsibility, don't they? I mean, they're so at the tip of the spear. I mean, I think we've talked about this on here, you know, like how is it not going to be HR that leads the organization? It has to be. It has to be with all of this human change and human impact. I can't imagine that that HR is not going to be the tip of the spear. If they're not, that's probably a problem for the organization. So, yeah, it's exciting. And yeah, I think we will see more of this. So, yeah.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well, I'm certainly seeing it with clients. I can tell you that there are clients who are actually stepping back and saying, what should HR be for us? And where is our value driven? And that's exactly the kind of conversation that leaders should be having.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. And if you're building software right now, that's exactly what you ought to be doing, right? You don't want to build yesterday's stuff, right? I think you've got to start. And I'm trying to challenge myself when I'm working with clients, especially young ones, right? To say, hey, don't go down this old path. Let's go down a new path. And thankfully, most are, right? I mean, most young hundred up and coming startups are trying to disrupt. That's always the name of the game. But all right, Julia, let's swing over to the talent world. Okay.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_01] With Cornerstone? Is that what you're taking us? With Cornerstone.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_03] If you don't know Cornerstone, you probably most people do. If you're in the enterprise and you've ever taken a class or a learning class, you probably use Cornerstone, Cornerstone On Demand. A few years ago, I mean, they bought a bunch of things, Julie, but over the years, they did take out or merge with Saba. They're probably their biggest competitor. So really a learning behemoth, but with a lot of other talent capabilities. I used to study them for HCM and did a bit of work with them on that side of their world. You know, they've got performance management. I think they have a recruiting solution.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_03] Maybe they've got some other talent management capabilities, but what they're really, really known for is their talent science, their skills data, their skills information. And what I think they're really doing now, and there's some, listen, there's some much, much deep, deeper analysis out there in the market. Always Joss Burson's always all over Cornerstone. You could check that out. I would highly recommend you check out what Stacia Gar put out there. She always puts the lengthiest, meatiest topics out there. I love seeing her. We caught up out in San Francisco.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_03] But what I think you're really seeing here, and I'm going to kind of go to the five things you need to know here from Cornerstone is one, it's really not trying to be seen as just a learning platform and talent platform. Where it's really going is into workforce intelligence, right? It's really looking to help you use AI to understand your skills, your skills gaps, your learning needs, your workforce gaps, your readiness for change, which is huge right now and going to be even infinitely huger or bigger, if you will.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_03] So really kind of redefining themselves around that workforce intelligence capability. I think what they're also looking to do here is really trying to take learning to another level, right? Take it to a connected skills, sort of employee development, performance tied, holistic sort of view to help make sure that that intelligence layer is giving you the meaningful nudges and actions and sources to take you to the next, to the tech, to the next level.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_03] So what I think is really interesting about this, Julie, is, you know, we're talking about they've completely rebuilt their product. They've rebuilt it from the ground up and it's, it's foundationed now on this, what they're calling a people graph and skills engine to drive these workforce insights. So the idea is, is that they're going to use, using this large base of workforce and learning data to build a real time view of people skills, people, skills, roles, and readiness, uh, leveraging

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_03] that people, people graph and skills engine pulling off of 45 million users data or over the years, I guess you could say, 5,000 skills and more than a billion workforce profiles. So they've got the data there to bring this to life. And so I think you're going to see, uh, you're going to see more of that. And then of course, uh, the agentic layer of all of this means that your agents obviously are going to be, um, uh, helping you find learning, right? Updating learning plans, maybe developing learning, uh, improving your job architectures,

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03] skills mapping, um, skills, needs analysis, all of these sorts of things, uh, are going to become, you know, much more, much more capable. And you'll have that agent factory to help you help you build some of those things, just like most platforms are providing you.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01] So, you know what I think, well, not surprisingly that it should come from cornerstone, right? But the whole idea of skills intelligence bubbled up for quite a while. And of course, Josh Burson was, you know, all over that and kind of leading a lot, a lot of that activity. There were a number of providers, you know, kind of aiming, taking aim at that. And it's just, uh, it's still out there. I feel like it never got realized by the vast majority of, um, clients and organizations figure out exactly what do I do with skills intelligence and wham, you know, we're onto the, the next

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_01] thing and AI becomes a, you know, a big, uh, talking piece. So, um, I I'm sure they'll be at the forefront of trying to figure out how do you merge those two things and, you know, kind of revisit, um, the whole idea of skills intelligence as, you know, as a, as an advantage, right. And something that you really need to understand about your workforce in order to maximize and optimize the way you're using resources.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. In real time. Right. I mean, I've, I've, I've talked about this just with EOR about how I've written about this, about how I think EOR is going to be very helpful for you making decisions about where do you get this talent? What, what talent is available? What's it, what's the risk? What's the impact and, and back upstream, right? People have to make a lot of decisions about what they have, what they need, uh, personally and as an organizational leader. So, um, yeah, very timely.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01] And not even in roles, but that's when we started seeing the market talk about, um, mobility, right. Internal mobility, not global mobility or, or expats and that sort of thing, but just internal mobility and, uh, that hunger that new generations have for being deployed and having different experiences that might sit outside of their roles. I think, uh, that conversation is not done with, right. There's still a lot, a lot of gains to be had in some of that space.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. One of the things I thought was interesting about that this is something everybody is like salivating over at every event, right? What is the pricing going to be? Where, how is your pricing evolving? I feel like that's the number one analyst question, right? So one of the things I did take away, I did jot down in that cornerstone event was that they are not doing add-ons for assistive AI. They are doing, they are doing some outcome-based agents. I believe they are charging for that. Uh, but they have packages. They're packaging everything, uh, new, new bundles and new packages. You'll have to go out there and check out.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03] Um, but they are not tokenizing agents or charging for API access and MCP calls. So that is, that is nice, right? That, that could really add up. And there's, I think we need to do, I need to get someone on to come on and talk about what's happening with pricing out there and what people are learning around some of the, I was talking to the, um, uh, one of the executives at Prism about some of the things they've learned in using, uh, Microsoft and, and, and open AI and other things in their business and how the, the, the,

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_03] the dollar, the cost can run up real quick, uh, on your tokens and your usage. So there's a lot of learnings I think that are coming out. We ought to really talk about, but. Yeah.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01] And I was going to say there's business case impacts like so many dimensions that we need to do some things around here for sure. But the business case dimensions and, um, you know, that those cop, those topics are just being raised now around how that caught, there is a discrete cost to that. Um, and vendors are repricing and, and, uh, we had, uh, um, the hot things, hot topics for our year. That was one of the hot topics that I, that I brought forward was the whole idea of whether

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01] those things are embedded or whether they're separately charged. Uh, and, uh, and, and we're not done with that by a long shot. And I think we're going to see a lot of things shifting, you know, back and forth a little bit in the market until folks figure out what is the commercialization and how do we make that profitable and reasonable and affordable and how do we balance that? Yeah. What does my business case look like if I start to use a consumption based AI and I have to

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01] feed that into my business case and my costs is something my clients are struggling.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_03] I think we just came up with a white paper, Julie. I think what we ought to do is team up. No, seriously, I'll go out and survey, I'll go out and survey the top vendors.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02] All right.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_03] For some information and you do some buy side information and let's bring it together with some recommendations on how to deal with this.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01] Okay. That sounds great.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03] Seriously. Let's do it. All right. We're going to do it before the end of the year. I'm kidding. We'll figure it out. Let's do it. Let's figure that out though.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01] Let's see when.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03] I'm serious. Cause I think this would be very compelling. I think people would really love that. I think there's vendors that would love to check it out, but also, and we can anonymize it, right? We could go out. I can survey X number of vendors in each lane, get a, get some good, good indicative information. You've got the buy side. You're looking at RFPs, what people are signing and doing right now and negotiating. And I'm sure you've got some tips for that. So yeah, let's do it. All right. We're on the docket for that bet. Here we go. All right. Let's move on to our friends over at UKG.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_03] I believe this would be our fourth and final event and product update. So again, this is, again, UKG always massive, right? Wide footprint, HCM, WFM services, you name it. There's so much we could go over here and I'll be candid. There was a little confusion on what products we could share and not share. Uh, I gave UKG a little problem, a little bit of gruff about that, about, come on guys, you guys normally let us have it all. But, um, so I think there's some new leadership there.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03] Uh, there has been some new turnover, you know, UKG is leveling up just like a lot of firms have been leveling up, right? You know, what takes you to one level sometimes doesn't get you to the next. And we've seen a lot of new leaders come in. So I, I'll, I'll just talk it up to that, but they're always very transparent and candid. So I'm not going to go deep into product. I'm going to kind of just talk about what, what the themes were, uh, and, and we'll hit some of the product. And I do want to talk, uh, um, AI pricing because that was obviously a subject. It's a subject at every, every stop on the way this year. Okay.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03] So look, obviously UKG is moving deeper away from being just an HCM suite and being more of a workforce operating system. That's kind of a language that they're using. And I would argue they've always been that they probably just didn't present it that way. It was HCM, WFM, whatever, right? Right. Insights and services. And I think that now they're really sharpening that and look, they really want to be understood. And I think, you know, look, I look at a, I look at WF, excuse me. I look at UKG in the same way I look at, uh, Apple, right?

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03] The more that you probably buy, the more that you buy and use from Apple, the more enhanced your experience is. Right. And of course, I think UKG feels that way about their products. Sure. Take our HCM, but there's so much in our WFM or Hey, yeah, take our WFM. But did you know, there's so much that we offer in our HCM and what if they were all integrated? And oh, by the way, we've got, you know, integrated native global payroll. And oh, by the way, we've got this amazing, unique one of one data set in work, uh, work, uh, what's, uh, sorry. Great places to work. Great places to work.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03] Um, and by the way, all underpinned by, by managed services and select places. So I think that they are, uh, obviously trying to show and present and certainly sell that totality to, to the, uh, to the organizations big and small. Right. So, yeah. So really positioning themselves at that operating layer, uh, that helps you plan, manage, pay and certainly support your workforce. Um, and really want to be less of a system of record and more of a command center. And I think that's what you're seeing. That's where they're all the HCMs become, right? That's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the,

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01] the evolution that is projected by. Yeah.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. You need a command center for your people. You need a command center for your agents. Now you need somewhere to dashboard and manage all that. Uh, and certainly have the insights to deal with it. Okay. Frontline worker is at the heart of what UKG is doing. I think that they would argue they own that space. Um, and I think in a lot of sectors, they probably do. Um, and I know that everybody, you hear it in work days talk, you hear it in ADP, you hear it at day force. Everybody's fighting to solve and support that frontline worker.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_03] And I think we all know and believe they're going to be increasingly more valuable because a lot of what some of them do, AI can't do it anytime soon. Right. I mean, I don't know. We'll see. But, uh, so look, I, I think that that's where the rubber is meeting the road, right? That's where management is, is managing. That's where operations is operating. Uh, it's where everything happens. Um, and those folks need, uh, you know, the enablement for that. And that's where AI comes in and that's where, where, you know, bright and, and UKG are doing a tremendous amount.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_03] What I love, and I've always talked about this. I love UKG's opportunity for orchestration because they own so many pieces and parts, right? We bitch about payroll all the time, not being as, you know, needing more automation, needing more, more, more support on the front end of what's coming in, in a more timely, accurate basis. Uh, because the feeds, as you know, to payroll cause a lot more problems than anything. Uh, and what is the biggest feed to payroll workforce management and time and attendance.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_03] And I think automating and having the nudges to get managers to get their employees to get their time in faster is only going to benefit everything downstream as well. Um, so yeah, lots going on in that regard. Uh, let me pause there, Julie. Any thoughts on before I go into some of the AI stuff?

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01] You know, I have, I have several, but we've spoken the big one loud, which is that, you know, this is kind of the shift or at least the messaging that we anticipate all of these, um, systems of records are going to pivot to, uh, or the vast majority of them anyways. And, uh, and frontline worker has been a theme for a while. It's kind of the different end of the spectrum of the talent. You know, you, when you're talent focused, you're, you know, you're working in a very harmonized, um, opportunity. And when you're frontline focused, it's just messy.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01] It's very messy and very complex and very challenging. So, uh, I do though, you, you dangled the idea of talking about, um, right. And some of the AI, um, pricing before us. So I'm ready for it.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03] So I think, I think what I love about you, again, go back to that owning so much, right? I mean, the idea that they can orchestrate, like when you think about to think about this, Julie, like think about context at UKG, right? If, if, if you've got my time punches, if you've got my preferred schedules, if you've got my, my payroll runs, you've got my benefits information, you've got my, my, my skills information on and on and on. And what could you, what could you infer about me and help me with, right? What could you, what could you guide me to that I'm not thinking about as an employee

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03] in my career or my day to day or my management of my team? Um, I think that's, what's really cool. And the picture they can provide when those customers are in their, in their house, I think is really, really unique. Now let's talk about, there is a lot of features that came out again. I don't, I don't, I was a little bit confused about what I can and can't talk about, but I'm just going to stay a little bit away. I've got some product, but a little bit more generic overview of that, but I want to talk to AI, the way they're approaching their pricing. So they're looking at kind of a three tier model, I guess you could call it embedded is included in the subscription.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03] Assistive AI is on a per employee per month basis. And your agentic is outcome or action based. So there's a bit of a mix there, but I like the definitive of drawing the line in the sand and at least starting with something. Cause I think there's still a lot of nebulousness to this. And I feel like this is pretty good, but I also would tell you that UKG stated and understands this is still in play. This is still being, being figured out as we all are on both sides, right? Buyer and, and, and provider. So I think there's, there's certainly room for changes.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03] No mention that they would monetize for API access or MCP calls. Remember we said Cornerstone, right? Said they wouldn't be charging for that. I haven't heard of anyone doing that yet, of any of the HCMs that I recall could be out there, but so, but no mention of that. I'll have to clarify about that.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_01] No, but I do hear limitations, right? Or, you know, like what's included and up to a certain amount of, of calls or certain volumes. So that's something to watch for, but you're right. I haven't seen that price ever.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03] Remember when our BPO contracts, our big HRO contracts used to have ARCs and Rooks? Yes. Okay. They still have them? Some do.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01] Yes.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03] Now I don't remember what that stood for. It was like, um.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01] Reduced resource credit and, uh, added, added resource credit.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03] There you go. When you went above and below the scoped volumes, there was a triggered amount. I wonder if ARCs and Rooks are going to become, or something similar are going to become back in style, much more in style than they, they, I'm not saying they went away, but I'm wondering if they're going to become, if something like that will become apparent for AI.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01] Look, let's add that to the pricing conversations that we should queue up because honestly, even what used to be your typical, you know, like I'm going to buy a subscription and I love the fact that it goes up and down with my population. The vendors have been moving the cheese on that for a while. And now it's, you know, there's a minimum and you could pay more, but you never go lower. Right. Sort of thing. And, uh, and so the cheese is moving all the time on these things. And, and from, you know, December 31st to January one, there's one provider in particular

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01] that I take umbrage with who's like, well, we don't, we don't do this. You know, like we only do it this way. And I'm thinking since yesterday, you only do it this way. And, you know, is this cheese going to stick or is this not going to stick? So, so we have a lot to talk about there. And I do think I like the three tier model. I think the bit that everyone is going to struggle with is the outcome space portion, right? Whether you tinker with flex credits or what's the outcome and what's the value.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01] And, you know, does the buyer even understand or acknowledge that's a value to actually pay more for it? Yeah. That is the bit that is just going to be.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03] What's the definition of value?

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_01] That's right. It's going to be very interesting going forward.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03] I think you're going to have to define a hard outcome and that's going to be the value is, is, you know, there. But, uh, but I mean, is that crazy to think that am I, am I, do you think you'll see, do we think we'll see something special like an arc and rook for, for these? Well, I think it's possible.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_01] That could be a way. And in fact, it's something that has existed before. So at least it's a familiar concept, right? And, um, you know, I'm super excited. If it goes, if it goes in that direction with arcs and rooks, the big lesson was your arc should equal your rooks. So you should have as much downside as upside opportunity, right? And that's usually not the way that providers imagine that fitting. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I gotcha. We'll just have to see. I don't, don't think the procurement teams won't get savvy and they'll figure this out. Oh, you know, you know. I know they will. You've dealt with them. You know, I know how it is. Uh, okay. Let's talk about two more things. Okay. Um, one of my pet peeves with UKG, right? Especially we've talked about the ransomware thing and how the, some of the damage that did, you know, there's been a little bit of a slide in, in maybe some of the customer experience. I've, I've noticed that in some things, but that is coming back. And I have noticed definitely over the last few years, UKG has shown some great numbers

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03] on, on how that's improving. And Bob Del Ponte has done a great job. I think really reinventing the way that they're caring for their customers. Um, and I think that's starting to come through in the way their customers are talking that we got to hear from. Um, but some of the things they're doing in that regard, Julie, cause I think this is important is to doing some using AI, right? Helping use, uh, AI in, uh, driving customer health monitoring. Um, they're also using it, uh, they have a new thing called a value agent role. Uh, and they're also, of course, I think I talked about this maybe, uh, last year's spring update.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03] They talked about their Emerald experience as a premium support tier that customers can adopt. Um, so very, very good there. And like a lot of our, a lot of their peers in HCM going with the forward deployed engineer to help customers with really complex problems. So think things like your, uh, I don't know, multi-country payroll deployments, right? Integrations across maybe HCM with, with benefits or finance or, or time. And, you know, if you have other time and it has some solutions around the world or things

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_03] you have to integrate, um, or just large scale agentic deployments. So I think this is help us help you, right? Yeah. It's, it's, I had said this all along. I think, I think vendors are going to get pulled into a change management role in their professional services. Back when we started talking about scaling AI three, four years ago, uh, everybody was really, you know, ramping things up. It was throttling. I thought, man, this seems like a massive opportunity where it's not going to be about deploying your platform anymore. It's going to be more about deploying AI and making sure you can actually function with

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_03] it. Um, yeah, I think some of that is also the vendors want that responsibility, right?

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01] I think some of the FD that we're seeing the Ford, Ford engineering, um, bit is you used to see the SIs. I mean, you still do systems integration partners have built in their own, they call them accelerators back in the day, right? Like accelerators to speed up all that one-time deployment effort. But then once you've gone live, you know, you often, many clients are taking that on themselves and yet there's still new things to be deployed.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01] So to me, the idea of having some of the FBE development happen is really designed to help retain, um, you know, and, and allow customers to, and their partner ecosystems to be able to be more adept at that without having to go back to the well, right? With the original, you know, big one-time big effort to deploy any old thing that is coming out of the next. Yeah.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. But it's going to be interesting with these FDEs. One of the knocks on FDEs is how do you scale that? Can you scale that to everybody over time as it ramps up? We'll see. I think at least in the year, in the beginning, it makes sense for the SAPs and the UKGs and the workdays to begin using those to help these customers again, help them help themselves, right?

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01] I feel like that's the bigger they are, the harder they fall kind of a thing, right? Like you want to, you want to build something that is comprehensive, but you maybe get just as much value out of building something that takes something simple and just makes it a no-brainer, right? Yeah.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_03] Or not even a pot. So I got two more and then I got a couple of products I want to talk here. Okay. But go ahead. Go ahead. Please.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01] Well, I was just going to ask you on the whole customer experience improving point that you just raised. Is there some angle to that that goes with, you know, maybe clients that have been with UKG for quite some time before they started bringing those components that work together as a workforce operating system that still feel a lot of the bumps and, and, and, and

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_03] pumps. I'm just saying broadly, I think, I think UKG over the past few years, I'd say over the past three years has really doubled down on their, on their customer experience from my perspective and the numbers they've shown improving and some of the investments they've made and listening to their customers. You can hear it coming through. I don't know the answer to your question directly, but, but, um, you know, I, I just know that, that, you know, there was a little time there with that ransomware thing where people were a little bit rubbed wrong, right? I mean, it caused a little bit of problems. Uh, the transition, they took some knocks during the transition as all, you know, all

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03] of that integration of two massive companies coming together, but I think they've really, really doubled down on this. And I just love the way they're talking and, and, and the things that they're doing. And, um, and look, they got some complicated, they got all the complicated stuff, right? I mean, it's, it's not going to be easy. And I think that, that, that, that what I, what I feel like I always hear UKG say on in their tone is how they try to partner, um, and at least try to help customers be as successful as they can. So, because there's so much unknown unknowns, you know, we all have them. So yeah. All right. A couple more things here. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_03] So I would say one of the things that I feel like you, I would come away with from there is that you're seeing so much more of a proactive nature of what UKG is trying to do. There's so much more of a preventative, predictive, you know, obviously guidance, but, but, and, and of course automation, but that prediction and that prevention, I think is what is really, really, really, really an opportunity here. And when you think about the fact that they are tightening the, the, the, the, the synergy, I know that some people don't like that word, but the synergy between payroll time and HR,

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_03] you know, I always call it the blocking and tackling of HR, right? And a lot of organizations do that stuff separately, right? Separate time system. Core HR might be together with payroll, but maybe not. Um, I think the ability for them to, to work with those in concert, again, weaving things together and orchestrating, think about all your handoffs as a practitioner, the better, right? And especially if you want to do more things with AI, that unification and that connected layer, that workforce layer, I think is really, really, really, really, really beneficial.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_03] So, um, and again, remember, I still see Kronos as the 500 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to time and attendance. I think all the other HCMs are largely still catching up. Dayforce is pretty close, pretty good. But I think when you talk about that big, complicated enterprise environment, who, who is more deployed than, than, than UKG?

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Right. And so workforce software is probably there. They, they're just at the beginning of their integration into the ADP ecosystem. And, you know, I, I, I appreciate that you're mentioning this, this tightening because certainly right. That has happened in, um, and moved in leaps and bounds over the year, but I feel like this is still an area with a lot of upside. Um, and it goes to some of the things that I, I see in here, you know, where, um, where getting that completely smooth and ironed out and, and some of the humps is, is easiest

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01] with net new going forward. And it's a little harder to take a look back and say, okay, wait a minute, I got to smooth out something that's been working, but maybe not, you know, the way we would like to see it work in the future. Um, and so that, and that's not unique to UKG, right? That's unique to any of them that has been bringing forward more integration and more frontline worker focus. Sure.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. And I think that goes both ways. The buyers have to change, right? They can't keep ramming old into new. We've been doing that for too long. It's over. We talked about that earlier. If you're doing that, you're just flushing your AI work down the drain that that that's not going to get it, you know, and they got to step up, step up and embrace this technology is what I, what I like to say. So, okay. Let's talk about a couple of products, Julie. Maybe that's, um, that's a good place to round this out. We'll wrap it up. So, uh, probably the five or so notable ones that I saw workforce intelligence hub.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_03] Uh, imagine a single place where you can be looking at, uh, dashboards, benchmarks, labor intelligence, decision support. Um, really it's trying to help customers get, or their adopters see that full picture of cost, capacity, risk, talent available, you know, all of those. All sorts of things, right. Just what we would all love to have in a big gnarly organization.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01] And more of a dashboard than trying to be like a workforce planning module. Right. We're talking. Well, they already have that. They already have that. Yeah.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03] So I think workforce intelligence is really looking at all of that information across all those capabilities. So, um, they have something new now called dynamic workforce operations. Uh, it is a real time intelligence for scheduling, uh, coverage gaps, labor planning, frontline decision-making, and basically helps your managers management, frontline management, see their problems before they start to become operational issues. Right. Be able to tell there's a gap, be able to tell we've got a downtime and how to shift and handle that. Right.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_03] So you think about like back in the day, everybody's boss has called them up and want to know why you got so much overtime or, you know, this, that, or the other thing. These are the types of things I think you can, you know, I'm simplifying. If I'm on a manufacturing floor, there's bigger problems, but, but, you know, I got to make sure Sarah who knows how to use the thing is here to do the thing. Um, and, and, and, you know, many, many other Sarah's across the, across the space, but, but there's a lot of moving parts that are going on. And I like this, right. The ability to see dynamically what's happening on the frontline is great.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_03] Um, Brighton AI, obviously getting more agents, certainly around all of the, all of the use cases you would imagine in HR payroll time, scheduling leaves, leaves was, was one they were pecking on, which I was like, I'm always cheering in the background. Yeah. I'm such a leave hater. Um, learning and it's just, the experience is terrible. Leaves learning, uh, employee support. Um, and really, again, think preventative, predictive nudging, you know, always right. Always the right answer.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03] Always the right, uh, result so that you're not guessing fumbling and maybe not getting it done. Right. A lot of work over in global payroll. Again, I can't, I can't talk about all of it, but I think what they're really doing is, is providing more visibility, more control, obviously deeper compliance monitoring. Um, a lot of work around, uh, you know, there's a number of multi, I don't know if you know this or not, we've talked about it in past episodes, the managed service types and layers or, uh, uh, levels of managed services. You can take from UKG. You can do a number of different things through there.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_03] And I do want to emphasize something that I, I think gets lost in the sauce sometimes is, uh, one view is, is GPC integrated to workday. So even though it is not out there, you know, shouting from the mountaintops, you know, at, at workday customers know that it is still integrated. It was the Amidas product that was bought and brought in. And that was a big workday customer or was a workday integrated customer before or partner before, um, one view is in fact integrated with workday.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_03] So you could still take one view for your global payroll needs, use it for your global payroll needs and not be a UKG HCM customer or something like that. So I don't know if everybody knows that, but, um, they've done a lot of work with one view integrating into the platform and giving it a lot of options and, uh, and, and tie-ins to the rest of the platform. So, so good stuff there. And then lastly, ready, uh, UKG ready, man, there's always a long list of stuff going on there, but it's getting just as agentic. Obviously it made a talent acquisition play with Moe.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_03] They bought the frontline hiring capability. So that's getting integrated, uh, nicely. Um, benefits are strong over there. They're doing well in the UK with that. Uh, and Canada payroll is coming, I believe coming next for that. So, uh, ready getting a lot of adoption and, and, and moving, uh, moving on up as well.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Yeah. Is some of that, is some of that that's happening in ready? Is that changing kind of the market size that is targeted for ready versus because I still see an awful lot of like wiggle room in the middle. Right.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_03] I say that too. I say that too. I think ready is really, uh, it's targeted down market. I can't, we've gone over it here on the show. The number, I think it's maybe a thousand, maybe a thousand and below. I can't remember 5,000 and below, but bottom line is, um, and we've, we talked about this too on the last one last year that it's getting, it's getting just as strong. How long in terms of some of his capabilities as pro, how long before they start to bleed together. But right now it's doing very well in that down market, maybe the mid market.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03] And I'd say that more complex middle market, upper market enterprise type buyer is probably the pro pro audience, but ready can play pretty well. Um, in terms of, uh, it's it's size mark. And I think it's getting really strong with a lot of different features. Great places of work is in there. Um, so much of what you have in pro is actually available and ready, but not, you know, maybe some of the other complexities, uh, are, are just not there.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_01] So, yeah, well, I would say definitely clients, even in the hundreds, you know, hundreds for sure. I see it, um, even middle sub hundreds, but, but honestly, I was just going to say, I don't necessarily see it being a hundred percent ready that ends up being brought in. Um, so there, there are some features and some factors, you know, that, that contribute to one versus the other that the sales team brings forward. And, uh, and I think what you're saying is the gaps are closing, right. And it might become a lot more straightforward.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, it's maturing. I mean, I, like I said, I think, I think we talked about it, um, the last time I'm trying to look for the number here to give you the exact number on where ready stops and starts. I don't see it right here, but yeah, I mean, I talked about that before the fact that I think it's getting incredibly, um, incredibly strong and incredibly powerful. And it's starting to just sort of, um, make its own mark, uh, in terms of, of its capability. So do they blend together one day? Do they become one? Maybe, maybe they will. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_01] Well, I think out of all of those five or so, you know, kind of product call outs that you gave, uh, besides the last two, the first several, you could really see the influence of the Kronos legacy, legacy Kronos side of the house and, and really digging into some of that bench strength, right. On being able to take the big and hairy frontline workforce, workforce management, you know, the dashboards and, and all of the things that go with leaves with all the sticky, sticky

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01] details and compliance and tracking, um, you could see there. And then the other, the other couple with payroll certainly had some room for opportunity with, uh, one view and, uh, this last one on ready. So.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03] All right. Cool. Anything else to, uh, to round this out, Julie?

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_01] Nope. I think this was an awful lot to digest. I bet this is longer than our typical. And, uh, and in fact, we both have a couple other events that might, uh, squeak their way into a news episode, which we'll be doing, uh, sooner rather than later as well.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. Look for that soon. We've got a big news update. Yeah. We do have some event, uh, product slash stuff in there as well that we didn't cover here, but, uh, yeah, appreciate everybody sticking and staying with us and we'll be back soon with another one. And as like always, give us a like, give us a share, give us a subscribe. It all helps. And, uh, thank you as always to GP, one source virtual and Zoho for, uh, for powering us ad free. And we'll be back real soon. Take care.