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[00:00:01] Welcome back folks. This is another episode of It's About Payroll. We talked about some new trending conversations in payroll today, but before we get all in that, what's up, Walt?
[00:00:19] Good. You know, we're at the middle of the year, the halfway point basically. You know what I'm saying? So it's a good time to have these conversations and topics and stuff because the payroll landscape is changing drastically. Yeah, for sure. What we're seeing. And so I'm good, man. How are you doing? Doing great, man. Amazing. It's like Andy Valentine said on the last episode, it's a great time to be in payroll right now because of all the changes, the technology.
[00:00:47] It's just that it's a really big shift that is happening. I'm excited. We are at the front of that shift, you know, continuing to pioneer in this space. As small as we are, we're small but mighty, you know? Yeah. While you were talking, you know what it would make me think about my time in the Navy?
[00:01:09] Oh, you know, like I think I should have this story like where, you know, sometimes, well, when I was in, I don't know how it is now. Like, you know, we have the radar, you know, right? You detect like things ahead and stuff like that. But if you're in the middle of a storm, you know, it'd be hard to pick up on stuff because, you know, like those radars might not be able to pick up all those things.
[00:01:31] So, you know, some of us had to stand out. I had to go up on the deck, the captain's deck and like stand outside with binoculars to see if there was anything coming. And I remember that we were going through, I think it was a tropical storm or something like that. And I remember the stern of the ship going under the water and coming back up. Like I was in the story, but those waves were like that high and like some of the splashback was coming all the way up and I had to duck and, you know, and everything.
[00:02:01] So it was like, it was like a movie. It was like so scary, but also in a way, like, you know, kind of like thrilling. And I know maybe that makes me like weird, but whatever. No, no, not at all. You know, that made me think about it when it comes to payroll, right? Like we're, we're getting a front row seat to see as the, the industry is changing, right?
[00:02:21] Some of that is going to come with, you know, unfortunately layoffs and changes, transformations and how a company is doing their things and process and their processes and stuff like that. But it's also, you know, thrilling. So for those of you that are maybe unsure or going through that process now, I would want to encourage you to try to enjoy the ride, you know, like, and think of it as you're the person with the binoculars and you get to see ahead of it. I'm in first.
[00:02:50] I mean, you may not see with the storm, you as the payroll pro, you know, get to be able to see the things that others may not be able to see, you know what I'm saying? So I love that. I love that. Yeah. That's, that's really great. What, I mean, some folks don't operate well in that. I mean, and yeah, and that, and that type of dynamic, what I can say to everyone is the only constant is change.
[00:03:16] So, you know, for folks who are resistant to change, you probably have a tougher time in life than most, you know, or, or as opposed to folks who know that there's nothing but change coming. Right. Yeah. But that's why faith comes in. That's the conversation we're always having. Right. Got to just keep the faith and you know what I mean? What do you got on your wall over there? Strength. Got to have that strength, right? That's what we need. No doubt. I got laughter there too, though. So I got to make sure to laugh. You got to laugh too.
[00:03:44] You got to laugh too. I was like, oh, Max, Max van der Gleespoosien. His, he posted something interesting the other day. His book is on the other side, that army book there. If you're watching the video and I posted something about cutoff, payroll cutoff. And he was like, you know, there will never be an end to payroll cutoff, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, what did he mean?
[00:04:09] So I went and read the comment, read his post, read the comments and what it begs. It forces us to clarify the difference between cutoffs. So I never thought about this. Right. This is why this conversation, this payroll conversation doesn't end. Right. It's like, okay, what cutoff are you talking about? We were just talking about the death to payroll cutoffs and the window or whatever, you know, and we had a great guest, Trent. I believe his first name was Trent, right?
[00:04:36] Back in the beginning of season 16. And so it begs a clarification of what cutoffs are we talking about? And there are different cutoffs. There's deadlines, cutoffs internally that you need your stakeholders to get payroll information to you for processing. Right. There's cutoffs for payroll processors to synthesize and process that data into something of a preview.
[00:05:06] And you need to get that to the reviewers for approval. And then there's that final cutoff that you got to push the button. So payroll hits when it's supposed to hit right on, on direct deposit. For the most part, everybody's kind of electronic these days, or it needs to hit so that those checks can go out. Right. The cutoff. So there's different. And then there's a cutoff of how fast you need to move the money. Right.
[00:05:35] So, you know, it's different. And now that's all. I just wanted to call that out. Like when we're talking about payroll cutoffs, right? We need to be more specific because clearly this post really forced us to think about all of them. Like, wait a minute. I get what they're saying. They're talking about the internal cutoffs and processing and da-da-da-da-da. We were just talking about how fast that money moves and how, when do you have to push the button so that your vendor can move the money. Right.
[00:06:06] Right. One more thing it makes me think of that one vendor clarified for me recently is that the reason why they need 48 hours is if you have live checks, it allows them time to get that live check. And they need to be able to get that live check out and mailed out in time for check dates.
[00:06:28] And because the law is you must provide your employee access to their wages on check date. The law doesn't dictate when check date is. The company does. But it said the law says once you've determined check date, you must deliver on that date or you will be out of compliance. So just a few clarifying things for payrollers out there.
[00:06:54] You know, as we move into this fundamentals, you know, congratulations to us, man. We got to celebrate the wins. Our CPT class has officially launched. We got it, right? Our students are coming. Starts Juul first is our first cohort. If you're hearing this episode, there is still time for folks to get involved. The reason why this course is different is because we are teaching people how to process payroll. You know, inside of a payroll system. This to my knowledge is unheard of.
[00:07:25] You have to get a job first to learn how to process payroll inside of a payroll system. So that's why I'm so excited about it. You know, shout out to iSolve and for partnering with us. Shout out to Career Learning for partnering with us and believing in the vision. Shout out to nerd out sitters for also, you know, Troy on his same video. He has the same vision of just educating folks with payroll.
[00:07:53] Go check his social media out. He's doing, he's doing all type of lessons all over social. He is killing social media right now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and by the way, if you sign up, you will get a free nerd payroll, nerd t-shirt or hood. We haven't figured out what yet, but we got a few weeks to figure it out for our, our students. Uh, and yeah, we're just super excited. The first week of it is payroll compliant, basic fundamentals, foundational payroll information, which will be recorded.
[00:08:22] So again, there's still time to join the class, jump in in the first week and really catch up and be good for the rest of this five weeks. And yeah, we just, the next cohort will be in the fall, I believe. Um, and we're just, and then every quarter after that. Yeah. Yeah. By that time we're going to have on demand. Yes. We're going to be building this thing out. Yes. So stay tuned. This thing is just going to keep growing and, you know, we appreciate all your support, man. And that, yeah, absolutely.
[00:08:51] And not only that, I'm not going to say names, but there are various people around the world developing payroll courses available. They're going to be available to us. It's about time, man. Thank you. There are more options out there. Um, you know, I do also want to give a shout out to the, the pay train payroll learning. It is a great content field system and learning. So that is another option as well.
[00:09:19] Um, so yeah, it was, there's options out there folks and more to come. Look out, be on the lookout. Cause these past two years, there's been, look at all the payroll books that are available here. There's another row here. I got to fix it. So that all of them are in visual. There's a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, not like 10 payroll books out there that are not textbooks. Right. Think about this and let me know if this makes sense before we go to the main topics here. Like payroll, payroll and stages.
[00:09:48] So like, you know, we're hitting it from all sides. You have, you know, most of the time, the majority of it has been like payroll while you're in payroll. How can you like a team role and stuff, which is, which is great. You know, we're not trying to knock that, but you know, what, like, what about prior to payroll? Like, what is even payroll? Like educating folks on what payroll is.
[00:10:12] That's another, I think, initiative that like you just mentioned, like, while we, you know, like different people in the world, nerd outfitters, what we're trying to educate common, you know, people who are unaware of this stuff. So to get them interested in payroll, whether that's a career or learning more about their pay, their paychecks, just in general, like financial literacy. Right. Yep. And then what, and then we haven't even considered like post payroll career.
[00:10:39] Like, what can you, how could you educate people on that? What could you offer? Like what, like that might be something to look at eventually as well. Payroll adjacent careers. Payroll adjacent, you know what I'm saying? So like, like there's a lot of different things to look at what it's, and I think it's exciting because we're kind of shaping and molding, you know, these, these things as we grow as a community and a payroll. I want to take a break real quick, just to let you know about a new show. We've just added to the network up next at work.
[00:11:08] Hosted by Gene and K to kill of the Devin group. Fantastic show. If you're looking for something that pushes the norm, pushes the boundaries, has some really spirited conversations. Google up next at work, Gene and K to kill from the Devin group. Professionals, you know, so man, I'm excited for what's to come. Yeah, no, me too, man. I didn't know. And again, shout out to the recent published authors.
[00:11:36] Nick Day just published the payroll pivot. Max just published a new book, his second book. And I think in what, two or three years or something like that, he's killing it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a lot of these folks, there's a ton of info out there. There's more resources, more to come. Like, share and click all the things and subscribe, all the things. Tell a friend to tell a friend about it because payroll is growing and we're out there. Oh, check out our book. Hello. Hello.
[00:12:06] I got to buy some author copies so I can keep posting. We got some signed one that we got to get out. You know, feel free to request a signed copy with no problems. So let's get into it because we keep jabbering on here forever. Yeah. You want to start us off here, man? What are we talking about? Yeah. So the, like, payroll has changed, right? You know, I think lots of people, even still, especially those who are outside of payroll,
[00:12:36] they see it as a back office function, right? And it really isn't anymore, right? You know, like payroll used to be just strictly, I think, viewed as an administrative task or role, right? And now, you know, payroll encompasses, you know, compliance, the employee experience, retention, cybersecurity, AI, financial wellness and literacy. Yes. Corporate reputation, right? Yes.
[00:13:03] All those different things that I remember myself in my own career, I wasn't thinking about that because all I was thinking about is like being as accurate with my payrolls as possible and getting all those checks, you know, stuff. This is when I had the stuff checks and stuff like that. That's the only thing that was really on my mind and like just, just processing, right? But as payroll changed, the role changed, the landscape changed.
[00:13:28] We realized that payroll could touch so many other avenues of things and it impacted so many different things, right? So let me, let me ask you a question. And then like, when was the moment for you that you realized that payroll had come more strategic? That's a really great question. I think you think about your answer while I'm answering here. Um, it happened. I was really lucky for it to happen early on my first payroll job.
[00:13:58] I have a, I had a really great mentor or two actually, Erica Lee. Shout out to Erica Lee. We'll always love her. She, man, she was like a auntie type when I first started and we still, you know, connect today. And, uh, my corporate controller at the time, Andy Stewart, smart as a whip and really taught me how to, the details and things like that.
[00:14:24] And then I just, but, but specifically when I saw it was strategic and it could impact a company in a bigger way is when we, we had a, I kind of sum it up really quick. There was a way for the company to save money by capturing these payroll numbers that needed to be charged back to respective, let's say a business units, cost centers type of thing. Right.
[00:14:53] The business operated in a way that it was kind of like a business that also the folks that it was sales and commercial real estate. So some of these brokers operated as their own businesses, right? So there was a way to charge, capture the payroll costs because it was in their contract that, Hey, we might hire an administrative assistant for you, but we're going to charge that salary back to your business. So, but you needed to do it manually at the time.
[00:15:23] It was some manual impact and we had to capture the payroll data the right way, the right data and charge it back to the system. And the system had a way of each individual business had its own earning statement and things like that. And, you know, and I, and like we saw that and it was like hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions that we were able to save on the businesses bottom line that were charged back to the businesses within the business. Right.
[00:15:50] And it's, it's respective course center. So that was the first time I was like, Oh, Whoa, this has impact. Like I probably, I probably didn't realize it at the time, but I'm looking back on it. Like that was the first strategic moment. And I still do refer back to it. And anytime I'm talking about how payroll saves money and then any type of exhausted list of things, you know, resumes, things like that. And we're talking. So yeah, that was the first time. And it was the, my first payroll job over 20 years ago. Yeah.
[00:16:20] What about you? I would say, man, it was also at a place that, you know, after I got out of the military, because I used to process payroll in the military. Right. And it was just, you know, I still didn't have an understanding of, you know, really everything that went into it. It was a mistake that I made at my first civilian job back from the military. And I was just trying to help someone. Can you talk about the mistake? Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:49] So, so I didn't, I wasn't thinking of it on a company level. I was very short sighted when I'm, when I made this change. It just started now. And I went in and made a change to a tax rate that needed to be updated. Right. But I didn't change it in the right place. I changed it in the wrong place. So it ended up impacting everyone in that particular company. Right. And so that, so that's, that was a huge mistake. Right. And I had to learn from that.
[00:17:19] It's the only time in my career that I have, had been like really counseled and written up. Oh, wow. And so that's the time of my career. Yeah. In the beginning. So that's good. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so like, it was one of those things where like, well, you have to, you have to look at everything that this will impact going forward. Ask questions. You know, and one of the words that the manager at the time, I remember, I won't forget her name. I won't ever forget her name when it was Robin.
[00:17:46] And she told me, she said, well, you have to be more thoughtful, mindful, and strategic about these type of changes. And so that is when that started to open up the, cause I was like, I mean, I never want to, this was embarrassing. I never want to go through that again. You know, like she threw me a new one and she was like, you know, you know, you better be glad. Well, because this is technically a fireball offense, you know, or whatever. Really? So like, yeah, it was, it was that big of an issue.
[00:18:15] You know what I'm saying? And so I'm going to, thank God it was, thank God it was only one client out of the a hundred clients that I had. Right. But look, you know, it impacted all that. Wait, that was employees. Oh, wait, that was, oh, sure. Was it in the military? It was after you got out of the military. After, yeah. Okay. Okay. So now I get it. Cause the military was just kind of cut and dry your interest of, it was just like, but there was the whole different internet. We didn't do all that in the military.
[00:18:44] So I was just learning on the fly here. And so still kind of at the beginning of a, yeah, still, I get it. It was my first, it was my first, you know, civilian payroll. Five years. Yeah. Yeah. Right. First ever civilian. So, you know what I'm saying? Oh, first ever civilian job also. So you, you didn't, oh wow. Wow. So you went right into the military. No, no, this is off the subject, but did you, did you have any, um, jobs before
[00:19:14] the military? Like, I don't know, grocery store or stuff like that. So I worked at a, what was that? Sports authority. Oh, okay. Before the military. Before the military. Gotcha. High school for a little bit. Okay. Okay. That was it. Okay. But I'm talking about after learning payroll in the military. My first civilian payroll job. Yes. Yes. Yes. Got it. So. It's a good one. I like that. I had to learn through a mistake though. All right, man. I mean, that's the best learning though. Yeah. Sometimes it is. Yeah. Sometimes you can learn from other people.
[00:19:43] It's every, that's, yeah, that takes a, yes. Agreed. Before we get caught up. So then let's keep going. Where are we at? So, so look, I think it's still, this, this next statement is still true today. Nobody notices payroll until payday goes wrong. Right. Yep. And sometimes it's okay to compare, you know, payroll to, you know, referees in sports, you know, calling out those different things, those, you know, that's what referees are there to do.
[00:20:13] Even though those, the linemen, the offensive linemen, they're there to protect the quarterback. You know, you think about the quarterback in this case being the company or, you know, the reputation of the company or even those air traffic controllers. What, what do you got to say? That, yes, this is all true for those three examples you gave. The offensive lineman one is a really, it sticks out very interestingly right now. Cause it's almost full circle. Right.
[00:20:37] When I was playing high school football in Eden, North Carolina, the Moorhead Panthers had a, there was an offensive lineman coach. He was like, hell cat, man. Like he gave us so much help with practice and everything. And, um, but he would be like, oh my goodness. And he would be like, come over to the basketball, come over to the offensive line. And I'm like, nah, I said, there's no glory on the offensive line. And he was like, what?
[00:21:07] You're crazy. Offers lock. Most important. We have to take a look. Like just, and I was like, this guy was talking about, cause I wanted to be like, I wanted to play linebacker. I played linebacker and running back. That's what I mean. I mean, you got to pay, right? When you play school, you know, high school, young ball, you pay both ways. Yeah. Cause that to me was all, it still gives me the chills talking about like that to me was all the glory. Right. And look, fast forward.
[00:21:34] I'm actually a payroll person in this game compared to offensive linemen. And just like you said, it's the most important position in the team. You know what I mean? You protect the quarterback. Right. And as payroll folk, we are protecting the company and the employee. Putting it even closer to what you said about the running back. Right. Cause you think about all the flashy running backs and stuff, different moves and stuff like that.
[00:22:03] Nobody talks about the linemen blocking down the field for them. You know what I'm saying? Like making, creating those openings in those spaces, creating space for them. You know what I'm saying? That's right. And allowing those running backs to then utilize the talent. Yeah. Right. That's right. There you go, man. Yeah. Good stuff. Hey, it's Libby DeLucian. If you're sick of business advice that sounds cute, but doesn't actually move the needle forward, this one's for you.
[00:22:30] The Libby DeLucian podcast is where we go one layer deep. No gurus, no glitter, just straight up unfiltered talk about scaling a business, running a household, and holding onto your sanity in the middle of the chaos. If you're the bottleneck in your business, I'll show you how to fix it. Simple, tactical, and one layer deep. Every time. Let's go visit Libby DeLucian.com. Libby DeLucian.com and check out our podcast today.
[00:23:28] Before I pass it on to you, this is a fun fact. You have to do research, but don't shy away from those things. You know, I think it's just going to help just even increase and make your career better. So I say just continue to do that. So Brian, what's the next topic for us to discuss, man? The next one is employees don't want paydays anymore, right? If Uber is instant, Amazon's instant, streaming is instant. Why are employees still waiting two weeks for money they already earned?
[00:23:56] And we talk about this, just talked about this, about real money movement. Now, this is probably a bigger discussion than what we're going to capture here. But we'll hit some points here, right? Younger workers increasingly expect flexibility because they grew up in the cash app, Venmo era. PayPal was the first one. Don't forget PayPal. They kind of, I think, really pioneered that space.
[00:24:26] And what that translates into payroll right now, the closest thing you got is earned wage access or the payroll providers that are embracing and trying to normalize same day pay, right? Yeah. Now you can't. And again, this gets, it gets very tricky as the conversation continues because you got to remember,
[00:24:55] you got to work the hours first, right? So even in a world where you can, and earned wage access does give you that access to daily pay, but it's yesterday's pay, folks. It's not today's pay. Well, let me rephrase. In most cases, it's yesterday's pay because I think there are scenarios where it could be the same day. And for the most part, companies that do embrace it, they'll at least want to wait the day to make sure your shift ends. And then it depends on when your shift ends, right?
[00:25:25] If the store is open, if it's a store and you're open all day long, then that shift has to end for you to get paid for it, right? We can't pay you for stuff that we don't know if you worked or not yet. Like that's right. Like that, that, so instant, eh, waiting two weeks definitely is not necessary anymore. Probably weekly is more of a realistic goal for, for pays. You know, another thing is financial stress is changing expectations around paying time.
[00:25:54] So you go ahead. You want to jump in here? No, absolutely. Because think about it, the economic times that we're in right now, collectively as, as a country, we're all feeling the crunch, you know, and the gas, the gas pump at the grocery store. We're all feeling these things. So people are accessing their, their funds more. I have a friend, you know, they just implemented like on-demand pay at their work. Right. And in at first, you know, they didn't see that many people using it, but now, you know,
[00:26:23] they're seeing a lot more people access their funds after working a day because, you know, people need their funds. Like, Hey, I can't wait until next two weeks or heaven forbid it's semi-monthly. Yeah. You know, so, you know, and look, this goes with that next statement there. Right. Yeah. I don't know where his access is moving from perk to expectation. It is. I, I, I think that already happened.
[00:26:49] Um, I started working with an amazing young HR professional last year that put me on to and was like, you know, I think what happened was like the earned wage access at that job was kind of, it like, it broke. The connection broke for a week or two and she panicked and she was like, Whoa, wait, we'll lose people if this doesn't get fixed. And I was like, really? It's like that. And she's like, yeah, this is expected. This is not a perk. And I was like, Oh wow.
[00:27:20] And it really started making me look at it in a very different way. So, you know, cause really, you know, I'm not spoiled. I'm just dating myself. Urge wage access came out in a time where I had already, I had already been a salaried employee for a long time. So urge wage access wasn't around when I was an hourly employee. It would have been amazing. Cause it would have changed the game for me.
[00:27:45] But, but as we've talked about in the show a lot is I was a victim of predatory lending payday loans back then in my time, that's what you had to do. Cause that was the only option, right? That was only option you broke and you needed money in between check days. It's like, Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so I believe that is true. It is definitely an expectation now, you know, whether it's helping or creating a dependency
[00:28:12] for folks, I think is, will always be an open debate. Um, at the end of it, it's, it's really comes down to the person and how they manage their funds. Like if you don't manage your funds well, these tools don't matter. You're still just going to be bad at it. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Because it was the same thing with those payday advances and loans. I got caught up in a cycle where I had to use one and then caught use another one. And then just what's on what you start going.
[00:28:40] It's like a slippery slope because, you know, on waste access, on demand pay, you know, people are thinking like, Oh, I'm going to use this money now. And they're not going to be seeing in the future saying, well, my next check comes. You're impacting it. Yes, it is. It's just going to be this continuous thing. So, you know, people can become very dependent on it. So let me ask you this, man, is by, by way to payroll outdated in your mind?
[00:29:08] I mean, I don't think it's outdated yet. I think it's on the verge. I think we're right at that conversation right now where, where companies are like, should we move to buy week? I mean, to weekly, or I think the solve for it is if they don't want to move to weekly, that they get earned wage access. Because then the, the, the data shows that the companies that move to earn wage access, the employees kind of just create a weekly pay cycle for themselves.
[00:29:38] Right. More so than daily, you know, and it begs could weekly or daily become the future. I bet. I think just more of a real time money movement is the future. Yeah. Once, once we can solve for that at the payroll level, then we can talk about how it should impact processing. Right. Yeah. If we, if you're, if not every bank, like, like Trent said and taught us like real time money movement depends on both banks.
[00:30:06] My bank can do it, but if your bank doesn't accept it, then it won't happen. Right. Same day pay and still is, has always, and for a long time been a capability, but your payroll vendor has to adopt it. The ACH rule already allows for same day payment, but there are cutoff times that are involved. You can't do same day pay all day. Right.
[00:30:30] So I think once we've moved to, I think the real time money movement has to go first and then work backwards from there, as far as how aggressive your company wants to be with payroll operations, payroll cutoffs, as it relates to real time money movement. Because then are you processing every day processing every other day? You know, how does it work?
[00:30:56] Because it has to, you know, now you really have to bring your accounting team into the conversation more so that we can understand. And that's another big call out is the way cash moves. Hey, yeah, an employee may want to get paid daily, but does the business, can the business sustain cash going out the door every single day? Right. The business, whatever it is, has to get money in the door. You know what I mean?
[00:31:26] So small businesses, they can't handle that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, right, as a consultant right now, most of my clients are billed monthly. Yep. But how am I going to pay somebody weekly if I don't get paid till next month? Right. Unless I have a big reserve. And that means you're a mature. Like, so there's all these implications and things that have to be factored into this. So like I said, it's a much bigger conversation that we can cover here.
[00:31:51] But I think we give people enough, right, to go ahead and think about it. So let me share this fun fact. Like you said, experts say pay speed is becoming a major expectation. Agreed. I think also the financial stress among employees continues to rise. Many Americans reporting paycheck to paycheck challenges. Agreed.
[00:32:15] Yeah, as we know, depending on the survey, it's like between 60 and 80% of Americans have paycheck to paycheck. Surveys in 2026 show many payroll leaders now see earned wage access as part of employee financial wellness strategy. As they should. And that hopefully that continues to get better because as we've been doing the research, a lot of say that says payroll leaders.
[00:32:39] But the other leaders in the organization don't understand urge wage access and some of them are insensitive to the employees needs for it. And they're like, well, we already pay them. Why do I got to do this? I don't need to do that. So, you know. So, yeah, you know how that percent has gone up, you know, because I think a couple of years ago we were saying 60 to 70%. Now they're saying like 76, closer to 80% of Americans have a paycheck. And you know what?
[00:33:08] I think that is because of the current state of the economy and prices. Gas is up to $5,000 a gallon. You know, the other day I kind of dazed off at the pump. Excuse me. And when I was like, oh, crap. You know, it didn't have a cutoff. I looked at the, I was like, oh, crap. I'm going to spend too much money on gas. I'm thinking, oh, I just filled my tank out. Nope. You know, it was like, you know, like, holy cow.
[00:33:33] You know, so anyway, as we, as we, as I pass it off to you, you know, we got to ask, payroll used to ask, did we pay correctly? Now payroll's asking, do we pay people the way they expect to be paid? Get ready to turn up the volume on your HR game. I'm Jay Arnold, former musician turned HR leader and hosts a backstage pass to HR Rockstar. Each episode pulls back the curtain on key HR topics.
[00:34:01] From leadership lessons and bold career pivots to the latest in HR tech and talent strategies featuring the rock stars within their industries. If you're ready to shake up the status quo and amplify your impact, this is your all access pass. You can catch the show in the Work Defined Podcast Network and wherever you listen to podcasts. Subscribe now. Let's rock the future of work together. That's a good question. Different question. Yeah. It's a different question. Let's talk about AI. Let's do it. AI is definitely entering payroll.
[00:34:30] I think it's entering carefully. But, you know, AI like Celery, you know, the guys at Celery, they're using AI to detect errors before payroll closes. Finding those anomalies and everything. Tax validations, predictive compliance, employee chatbot support, faster audits, payroll analytics. So, yeah, I think that, you know, we should ask a couple of questions about AI, right?
[00:34:57] And we're going to speed this up here because we're getting close to time here. And I definitely want to do the lightning round with you because I think it has some fun questions, Brian. So, look, should AI ever approve payroll without human intervention or review? That's an easy answer. No. Oh, not right now. No. Yeah. No. Let me ask you this. Would you trust AI with your paycheck? Conceptually, yes. Yes. Okay.
[00:35:27] Uh, conceptually, yes. But it, it means, but it means that I would need to understand more about how the AI is built and all that. Like, so yeah. All right. And what happens if AI were to get payroll wrong? No different than what happens now. If somebody, if the person gets it wrong, it's got to get fixed. Yep. Because look, even if it's a learning model of AI, right?
[00:35:54] Like if it's, if you put something in there and you tell them to look at the wrong thing or the wrong data, it could get something wrong. It could miss something based on what is programmed to do. Right. It's no different than us getting it wrong. Yeah. That means we would just have to, you know, do a little, a different job. So do you agree with these, this, the statement that these examples, the AI could probably never fully understand about payroll. You think it will fully understand retro.
[00:36:24] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Time card excuses. I mean, not time card excuses, but no, it's not going to understand human bullshit. Like, come on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Multi-state tax nightmares. Absolutely. Better than we can. And it's going to do it better than we can. I think, I think, I think a lot of payroll people are scared of saying AI is going to do this better.
[00:36:51] So understand the black and white, the calculations, the logic. Yes. Agree. Agree. Right. So we're, I think we agree. And like everything you said, I agree with. AI is going to help with speed, automation, error detection, but it's still going to require, it's still going to require a human intervention. Like you said, those pilots, right. They were pilots. They were pilots.
[00:37:13] You know, compliance oversight, you know, it's, yeah, I think, I think even if something is missed, I think people are going to appreciate the human interaction. Right. You know, I say, I don't want to talk to an AI chat support bot. I want to talk to a human to get, you know, get myself squared away. Right. Go ahead. I got two things. Go. When you finish, I got two things to share. Oops. Sorry. I just, I just did something. So look, industry. Sorry about that. Fun fact.
[00:37:41] Industry reporting shows that AI is increasingly being used for payroll validation, anomaly detection and automation. But experts warn that fragile payroll systems and disconnect, disconnected data remain major issues. So even still, this is just saying like, even with AI, if you have bad data, you're going to have bad results. Right. And yeah. And I mean, that's so two things.
[00:38:08] The way I see one of the possibilities that I see payroll evolving, especially with the, the, the Bettys of the world. Right. Um, I have the privilege of working outside of pay calm right now for one of my clients and it's a good system. And, you know, I took a little getting used to that. Employees can see their check before I'm done. Right. But it's a double edged sword.
[00:38:34] It, it also gives you the opportunity to pay them right and get it right the first time instead of waiting till payday. And then they're more upset and they're like, oh my God, I'm going to, you know, um, which reminds me, I got to check something for this. Oh, look at that. Yup. Uh, so I think that with AI, like if AI is doing it and you can, the, the, the, the employee can preview their check while AI is processing. You can talk to the AI and say, this isn't right.
[00:39:04] What about my blah, blah, blah. Or I had more hours. What's right. And, and force the AI to go look and, you know, and do the, do the, the legwork. So that's one thing it can, we could possibly communicate it with. And then the other one was, uh, damn man, what was it? Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was in here somewhere. Thank God. I'll think of it.
[00:39:32] When it comes back, I'll, I'll bring it up randomly. Go ahead. This has been a fun conversation. Yup. Um, let's go to this lightning round. Let's do it. Payroll hot tape. First time we're doing this. So you can say yes or no. Okay. Try to give a short answer. I look, you may have a different answer, but just say yes or no. Right. All right. There's six. I think there's six of them. Yeah. So payroll checks will completely disappear. Yes. What do you think? Yes. Okay.
[00:40:02] I think people are going to have different, there's going to be digital payment. Only everyone. Yep. All right. Yeah. I will process most payrolls within 10 years. Yes. Oh, I think, I think no. Okay. That's good. Yeah. No, because, because, because of small business. Right. Um, so daily pay will become the norm. I'm going to say no.
[00:40:32] Oh, okay. Yeah. I I'm going to agree with you there as well. I don't pay all right. Like you need time. Yeah. Right. We're too stuck in it. Yeah. I didn't say no. Payroll title. Payroll titles will become more strategic. Yes. Agreed. Payroll should have a seat in the C-suites. The, I don't, I don't know about this one. It's a really good debate. I say yes. I say yes.
[00:41:01] But it depends on the structure of the company. I think it's because of the business. Yeah. Yeah. So like, but I think yes. And for larger companies. Yes. I think so. I think it should always have impact, which it doesn't. Like it's not, the impact is not going to the C-suite, whoever their leader is. That's not happening. I think that should happen. Whether we should be the chief payroll officer. I think that's makes sense for our business. Cause we're a payroll business, right? Chief payroll officer is me and you.
[00:41:30] Like, cause we run a payroll business, right? But if you don't want a payroll business, like, you know what I mean? Do you need a chief payroll officer if you don't want a payroll business? Maybe not. You just need either the CFO or the CPO or wherever, you know. So anyway. So next one. Last one. Payroll professionals deserve higher salaries. I think that's, yeah. It's debatable. Some only because yes, but some of us are already making those higher salaries.
[00:41:58] And if you're already making, if your company is already paying you what you're worth, then no. I think it's better worded that more payroll professionals are underpaid, I guess. Something like, but yeah. It's, and he's yes. Yes. For the greater good. Yes. Yes. I just say yes. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta say yes. Oh yeah. Pay all my payroll people. Yes. No doubt. No doubt. All right, man. This has been a great, you know, episode. We have more to talk about, but we're going to add those things. Yeah.
[00:42:29] Yeah. It's all good stuff. All day. Yeah. For real. What, what are the messages here? Payroll isn't just about numbers. It's it impacts life, right? It impacts repayments, groceries, daycare, or childcare. Yeah. You know, peace, peace of mind. Yeah. Cool. So as payroll evolves, the people behind payroll matter more than ever. Right. I want to ask folks what I'm talking about. Cause I want to ask the listeners. Okay.
[00:42:59] Go ahead. It got me riled up. What, what payroll trends are out there that you guys are getting excited about? What worries you, right? Engage. And I say, we got a LinkedIn page. You can hit us up there. You can hit us up on comments and out of side or Apple, wherever you listen. Yeah. And do you do, what do you think about her? During wage assets, do you use it now? Do you want it? Do you need it at your company? You know, like, follow, subscribe, tell a friend and tell a friend and keep listening.
[00:43:29] What's good. End it up for us. Get those books. Get those books. Get all the payroll books. Yeah. Get all the payroll books, folks. Word up. We, we got, we're running a digital sale on ours. It's only $2.99 for the digital version. Yep. So until the next time, folks, we love you. Peace. Peace. Peace.
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