How to Build the Referral Relationships That Actually Send You Deals

[00:00:00] Alright, so a couple months back I did an episode of Payrollin' with Scott Goldberg who runs sales at Dominion Payroll. So Scott has a $6 million quota and over 30 sales reps and one of the largest independent payroll bureaus in the country. I asked him where you start a sales plan for a team that big and an organization that big and that big of a quota. And he said it's simple, it's our 10v4 program.

[00:00:25] So 10 partners, 4 deals each for referral is 40 opportunities per rep from their partner channels. And that completely changed my perspective on how I talk and approach partners. And today I want to talk a little bit about that mindset shift, some of the things we've done internally since then, and then our value rapport ask method that we use when developing partner relationships, specifically with CPAs.

[00:00:56] Welcome to Payrollin, the show where you will learn how to operate and grow your payroll business from the most dynamic minds in the business. If your company offers payroll services, this is the podcast for you. And now, here's your host, Matt Vaadi. Let's go.

[00:01:20] So it was a big mindset shift for me when Scott said that because I always used to be focused on the biggest CPA firms in town or the biggest regional partners around that, you know, could be the honey hole where we make that relationship that turns into 100 deals a year because we become a preferred provider and we become their provider of choice. But it was actually very freeing to think about how simple that is.

[00:01:42] 10 relationships because also in terms of volume, you're thinking, hey, we probably need a bunch of different CPAs, brokers, referral partners. And ideally, one of them is that big honey hole. But when you really break it down into those simple numbers of 10 partners, four deals a year, that's one a quarter, that's much more manageable to think about. So and when we look at the people that we're competing against, they have a very distinct partner strategy. So ADP is a great example. They have CPA-centric reps.

[00:02:12] If you have a CPA-centric rep and you're watching this, leave a comment. I'd love to hear about your program. But, you know, you're also competing against presence and consistency. So if you're a smaller bureau, one of the biggest challenges is, I know, especially when we were first getting started, is how do I maintain operations and also stay in front of my CPA partners and my local partners, my broker partners? Because I can't out-resource ADP. I can out-relationship them, though. Their reps turn over. We can be the constant.

[00:02:41] We've been in the market for 12 straight years. And so we have that distinct advantage of how we approach the partnership and how we develop trust. But the hard part is staying visible enough to be remembered during the key moments of the year. So we're going to talk a little bit about that here. First thing is, like, getting in the door with a CPA. I know some people ask me questions about this leading into the session of, like, how do you actually crack these relationships? So some of you have heard of Gary Vaynerchuk has a methodology called jab, jab, jab, hook.

[00:03:09] And so that means give value, give value, give value, then ask. I think that's a really good thought process when you're partnering with CPAs, especially because they need value from their partners. They're always looking for ways where they can get more educated. They love continuing education for their firm and their partners. But they also want education for their client base, and they're happy to co-brand education when it's good and quality. And there's a bunch of different ways you can do that.

[00:03:36] But even in terms of the initial outreach to a CPA firm, you know, we always say lead with value, even if that's if you're stopping by a person or you're making that initial cold call. Just, hey, what can we do to serve the firm? And what can we do to provide something more than donuts and coffee on a quarterly basis?

[00:03:54] And one of the things I found that works really well for us as it relates to that value add is we come up with a roster of here are five sessions that we can do for your firm or your clients pre-baked so they can choose from those sessions. So when we talk about, hey, we're happy to do some co-branded educational content. Well, what does that even mean? Like, what are topics? Well, we just come into the year. We say, hey, here are five that we can offer on a menu. They can choose from it. They can do all five throughout the year.

[00:04:21] They can just choose that they only want to do one or two or three and see how it goes. And that's got us in the door to, you know, we'll buy pizzas, get 25 members from a firm in a room. And now we've cracked open the door for not just one referral relationship, but, you know, potentially up to five to 10 different referral relationships inside of the same firm, which is definitely a big piece of this puzzle as well. So lunch and learn sessions are great. That's a way to provide value. There's a bunch of different ways to provide value.

[00:04:46] We always want to provide them with, you know, like, for example, we have 42 free HR templates as one of our lead magnets that we give away. We'll brand it to the CPA firm, co-brand it so they can give a link to their customers that says, hey, here's some free HR templates you can use. So we're always trying to find ways that we can provide value to them because we're not going to do what ADP and paychecks do. We're not going to have the big, thick tax book that they're going to have up on their shelf. We're not going to have the budget for that every year.

[00:05:13] Maybe we're not going to publish some big things that they're going to use like that, but we do have other ways we can do it. So we want to lead with value. Now we want to build that rapport. So you want to go wide inside the firm and you can go wide even if it's a three person firm with a person sitting at the front desk when you walk in and two CPAs in the back. Getting to know everybody is a really important part of this.

[00:05:33] So that starts with maintaining a CRM when you actually go in and learn something about a human being, writing it down and keeping a record of it so that when you call back out next time, you remember that they have two kids and they grew up in Florida or whatever the thing may be. I talk to founders in the payroll, HR and accounting industry every single day. They all tell me they need more of one thing. It's not more money. It's not more AI tools.

[00:06:02] It's more time. How do I get more time? Well, I hired a virtual assistant through OutsourceScale.com that helps me manage my inbox, manage my calendar, handles administrative tasks for me, helps support my marketing efforts and much, much more.

[00:06:18] The cool thing about OutsourceScale is that they actually train the virtual assistants on the latest and greatest AI tools to make sure that they can't only do that administrative work for you that you need to get off your plate, but they're doing it in the most efficient and effective ways possible. I've been so happy with my assistant from OutsourceScale that I've actually added multiple other teammates to our other companies through them. Their pricing starts at only $7.99 a month and they make it super easy to get a new teammate onboarded and part of your team very quickly.

[00:06:48] Check them out today at OutsourceScale.com. You know, the thing about this staying top of mind and building rapport thing, we have a big CPA firm here in town. One of my good friends over the years, I cold called this guy when we first opened 12 years ago. And he's become a mentor and one of my best friends. And he just exited one of the largest CPA firms in the area in the last year.

[00:07:16] And he's always told me over the years, Matt, those ADP reps coming by with cookies, it just doesn't matter. Like we don't pay any attention to that. But his firm has 75 employees. And I see their posts on LinkedIn where they're going to lunch with this ADP rep and they're spending a lot of time with this ADP rep. And I see the ADP rep posting pictures from inside their firm all the time. And she's not doing that because she's not getting any deals over there. She's getting business from them. They're working together. And the reason why is because she's staying top of mind. She's staying consistent. She's there.

[00:07:46] So if you don't have a sales force full of people with a CPA centric, you've got to find a way to stay top of mind and stay in front of them. So sometimes that's as simple as just, you know, taking them out to lunch once a month. That's a big one for me is just like, hey, getting down, having a meal is huge. And it's a lot more conducive to my schedule than I'm going to swing by and drop off a bunch of cookies every week. But there's also, you know, we can have things delivered. I think now is a better time than ever in terms of like we have a cookie vendor that we work with that for 40 bucks,

[00:08:13] we can have a box of cookies and a tin that's branded to our company at their doorstep. And we can do that every quarter and just stay top of mind with a couple of clicks of a button and not really have to do a lot. I'm not driving around town all day like a CPA centric grab. So we want to make sure we're developing rapport, we're creating relationships, we're staying top of mind. But then most importantly, and this is where a lot of us fail, is we don't ask. So we don't ask for the referral. It's like we don't ask for the sale in the sales process.

[00:08:41] I used to work with a guy who he led every sales meeting with this really great line that I love. He'd say, hey, I'm going to present a business case to you. And then if that business case makes sense, I'm going to ask you for your business. So he was laying the foundation from the start of like, look, this is going to end with me asking you for your business. Like I'm not here to just demo a product for you and hope you like it. The goal is that we are in your partnership, but I got to build a business case first. And so there's some of that happening with the CPAs as well.

[00:09:09] Now, the bigger mistake I see beyond not asking for referrals is you're saying, hey, if you know somebody who needs payroll, keep us in mind. Well, somebody who needs payroll, keep us in mind is the most vague ask you can make. Like it's any company, any industry, any size like you can't serve any company, any industry, any size. So be specific. What industries do you serve really well? And I know you serve them all really well.

[00:09:34] But for us, I walk in and I say we work really well with nonprofits with 10 to 50 employees. That way I know that we're just getting embedded as the nonprofit. If somebody in that firm is working with a nonprofit, they think of us first. And I just would rather stand out for one industry with one size than have them wonder whether or not we're a good partner for something. So we have a specific ask, specific framing, specific request for that CPA partner.

[00:10:02] So, I mean, when you look at that math, the 10 before, it's a lot more freeing to think about that. 10 partners, four deals each. If I can stay in front of them monthly, you know, I was just working with somebody on my team earlier today who's taken over our business development operations. And I'm like, look, all you have to do, we have them all tagged in our CRM. We have a tag in the CRM that says 10 v. 4. And then every month, every week, you just need to reach out. Phone call one week, email two weeks later, lunch later that month. Like, it's not a complicated thing.

[00:10:30] And it makes it much easier to manage when we try to keep it to those 10 partners and not 100 partners. But, you know, one of the things that's important to note is it's probably going to take about six to eight visits, touches, conversations before you ever actually earn the right to get business from someone. So they say it takes about three hours worth of face-to-face time with another human being before you're comfortable spending money with them. Well, think about CPAs, especially by nature.

[00:10:55] They require a lot of trust to be built, and so they're going to want to make sure that you have proof points that you are who you say you are and that you can do what you say you're going to do. So commit long-term, commit for the math, and understand that CPAs aren't hard to crack. They're very easy to get into. They'll take the phone call. And trust me, they'll actually take phone calls a lot better than emails and other things. Like, all my best CPA relationships, I sent a couple emails, I dropped off a couple things. But until I got them on the phone, nothing happened.

[00:11:21] And they were very easy and open to talk to, and it was a simple conversation in terms of, hey, look, we're just trying to earn the right to be there. Should any of your customers ever be looking for a payroll provider and you're looking for somebody to refer them to? It's that simple, right? But we know we've got to earn that right, and so we want to build the trust over time with you. And make sure that you do what you say you're going to do, and ultimately, CPAs will partner with people that they can trust, that take good care of their customers, and that do what they say they're going to do.

[00:11:49] So make sure you systematize your relationships, and that's how you're going to earn more business from your CPA partners and others. Appreciate it. If you enjoyed that episode, please share it with someone else you know who might enjoy it and learn from this. And also, please rate us five stars on your favorite podcast player. We really appreciate you taking the time to listen, and also don't hesitate to reach out with other topics you'd like to hear more about. Thanks so much. Thanks so much.