Formalizing Support for HR Wellbeing

[00:00:00] So, HR is stressful. We deal with emotions, restructuring, redundancies, grievances, discipline, and we hold it together for all those people in our organizations, but what about us? I'm Andrea Adams and today on The HR Hub, we're going to be talking to Dr. Jo Burrell. She's a clinical psychologist and co-founder of Ultimate Resilience. She's the co-author of an HR mental well-being survey that has run for three years now,

[00:00:28] and she's been named one of HR's most influential thinkers. Hi, Jo. How are you? I'm very good, thank you. How are you? I'm great. I'm great. So excited to have you back on. I've been waiting for this, like with bated breath, because we talked last January and 2025 results were alarming.

[00:00:53] So did the same thing pan out for 2026? And regardless, like, what did you learn? So I guess the biggest thing that we've seen across three years of running this survey is that the picture hasn't really changed. It's remained surprisingly consistent.

[00:01:10] So, for example, when we asked about support at work, only 13% said they felt well supported in their workplace in relation to their mental well-being this year. And that figure was exactly the same last year. And we have consistency across a number of other data as well. So actually, the main thing I've learned is that things aren't changing for HR professionals in terms of their mental well-being.

[00:01:41] Okay. Well, that's disappointing. I was hoping it would get better. Did you get a wider sample this time? In terms of numbers, we had almost exactly the same number of respondents this year as we did last year. It's another thing that was consistent. So we were just shy of 1,500 respondents this year and the same last year. There was a difference of about six respondents, slightly more this year.

[00:02:10] So across the three years, because our first survey was really a pilot, across the three years, we now have 3,000 respondents. So did anything change in a positive direction at all? Or is it just not significant? Yeah, so we did see a slight improvement in well-being scores. Okay.

[00:02:38] So psychological well-being, very slightly. But unfortunately, let me just, I'm just having a quick look at my figures. Still, 74% of our respondents scored below the UK average for well-being. So the large majority is still below the average we would expect across the normal population, you know, general population. And we did find a slight decrease in the burnout measure scores too.

[00:03:08] So slightly fewer meeting the threshold for burnout being very likely and slightly fewer showing significant symptoms of burnout. But these are very small changes. And actually, I think, well, who knows? If we did the survey again next year, there might be some more ups and downs. We hope that there'd be some real big improvements.

[00:03:36] But I think these small changes don't really tell us too much. Was there anything that surprised you? Well, I think one of our most important findings is about support, actually. So I was saying earlier that only 13% of our respondents in 2025 and 2026 said they felt well-supported at work in relation to their mental well-being.

[00:04:01] Now, we were able to look at that group of people, the people who felt well-supported, and compare them with the group who didn't feel supported at all. And look at their levels of well-being, their mental health, their sickness absence rates and so on. And what we found probably isn't surprising, but I think is really, really important nonetheless.

[00:04:26] What we found was that those people who feel well-supported at work, that 13%, they are much less likely to be suffering from significant mental health issues. So things like depression and anxiety and burnout and poor well-being. They are much less likely to have taken time off sick in the previous year. And they're much less likely to be thinking about leaving the profession. So I guess what that says is support is incredibly important. It makes a huge difference.

[00:04:55] And it not only makes a huge difference for the individual HR professional themselves, because, of course, if they are not struggling with their mental health, then they're going to be feeling well and they're going to be thriving. And that's good for their families, too, and their loved ones. But it's also fantastic news for organisations, isn't it? Because if, you know, if your HR professionals are functioning well, then they're delivering a good service.

[00:05:21] They're supporting your, you know, your employees well, and that's helping your bottom line. So this thing about support is really, really important. What are, you know, the, you know, I think most important finding was that support really, really matters. Last time we talked, you, I think you were writing a book. Yes, we still are. You still are. What's the, what's the anticipated delivery date of that?

[00:05:50] I, you know what, apparently, I'm not an author, but apparently that's a question I'm not supposed to ask. But anyways, I'm asking it. What's the delivery date? And that slightly kind of makes me feel slightly anxious. When you are talking about support and anxiety and feeling good, and I'm asking you the question I shouldn't ask you.

[00:06:12] Because I want to ask, like, because I suspect in that book that you're going to have all kinds of ideas about, like, you're coming to this conclusion that support is the issue. Yes. Or is a core part of the issue. And then in the book, you're going to be elaborating on how to address that. Yes, absolutely. Because all support is not the same, is it?

[00:06:34] And we know already that workplace wellbeing interventions are very patchy in terms of their effectiveness. In fact, there was a big study done, I think, last year in the UK, looking at the effectiveness of a whole range of different workplace wellbeing interventions. And they found, actually, sadly, not very much impact. So not a lot of change as a result of things like, you know, stress management training and those sorts of things.

[00:07:03] We need to be thinking really carefully about what sorts of support we're talking about. And I think that, you know, we didn't ask that question on our survey, what support are you getting? So we don't know what it looked like for those people who said they felt well supported at work. But there is lots of evidence out there that tells us about what can be effective in workplaces.

[00:07:25] And I think that certainly one thing that's, you know, important to highlight is that social support is incredibly important. We know that from the research. You know, there's really strong evidence that suggests that social support serves as a really important protective function when it comes to our mental wellbeing. So interventions that involve social support are going to be particularly important.

[00:07:54] And I also think, you know, lots of organisations have a habit of putting in place sort of one-off tokenistic sort of mental wellbeing interventions and hoping that that's going to solve, you know, every problem there is in an organisation. Of course, we know that's not true.

[00:08:12] So actually, if we're talking about what's going to be most effective, we want to be thinking about support systems that are regular, that are embedded, you know, that people know are going to happen, that are structured, that are formalised, where we expect everyone to attend and take part. So the more formalised these kind of support systems are, the more likely we are to attend, to engage.

[00:08:37] And actually, more formalised systems also have frameworks that help to guide us and help to ensure that the purpose is adhered to. You know, there's a reason we're turning up here to do this thing. Frameworks help us to stick with that, you know, and make sure we're sticking to that purpose and focus. What is the social support? Is that like my friend? It doesn't sound like, as you talked, I'm like, it's not my friend. Um, it's something else.

[00:09:07] So what, what does this even look like? Absolutely. I mean, your friend. So we know people who have good, strong social networks, and that might be a small social network, tend to fare much better psychologically. They tend to cope with stress better. So absolutely, it can mean your friend. But I guess when we're thinking about the workplace, then we're talking about colleagues.

[00:09:29] We're talking about maybe other people in our profession that we don't work with necessarily in the same business, but we, you know, are connecting with outside. And I think that for HR professionals, what we're talking about is, are we creating spaces for HR professionals to come together and to talk about not just the output of work, but the impact? And this is what we're talking about here, isn't it?

[00:09:54] With our survey results, is we're finding lots of people really struggling with their mental health, probably as a result of the demands of work. And not many people talking about it. So if we can create opportunities for ourselves to actually talk about not just the output, but the impact, as I said, then we are, you know, we're making progress towards helping those people. We're normalizing for a start.

[00:10:23] You know, if I meet someone else who's experiencing a similar difficulties to me, then that normalizes my experience. I feel less alone. I feel less like it's my fault or my problem or something to do with my own coping strategies or mechanisms. I'm much less likely to blame myself. So there's a normalizing impact that happens when we connect with someone else who's having a similar experience to us.

[00:10:47] I think it also helps us to be more likely to then reach out further, maybe for help. If we're normalized, if we feel like it's not our fault, there's less stigma, then we're much more likely then to, to reach out for more formal help, whether that's therapy, whether that's coaching, whether that's just speaking to our manager, whether it's, you know, accessing services that might be available through our benefits. Social support has this really, it's like a kind of springboard in that sense.

[00:11:16] What does a social support something look like in practice? Because we're not going to, you know, maybe some can get you and you're going to come, I don't know, lead whatever it is. But can you like paint a picture for me? So I often make the distinction between informal support and formal support. If we're thinking about workplace support, we're thinking about supporting your HR teams, for example.

[00:11:43] I think about the difference between informal support and formal support. OK, informal support is things like your one-to-ones, your networks, your, you know, your networks outside of work. You know, lots of people are part of, you know, membership groups, you know, Facebook groups where there are, you know, there are other HR professionals, online groups. There might be sector-specific groups that you might be involved in or networks that you're involved in.

[00:12:10] So these are, they don't have a clear structure necessarily. They don't necessarily have a clear function, but they're places where we meet others. OK. And then formal support is support that has a framework that informs it. So things like coaching, supervision, reflective practice, those sorts of things.

[00:12:36] So, and I think it's important to make that distinction because, you know, with that informal support, if you're an organisation that's got no money and no resources, you can still put that in place. All you've got to do is create the space for people to come together and connect. And that's going to bring a benefit to people and their wellbeing. But formal support is much more likely to happen. It's more structured. It's more focused. And as I was saying earlier, it's informed by a framework.

[00:13:06] And the framework helps us to focus on the things that we intended to focus on when we came together in the first place. It makes sure we stay on track. It makes sure we, you know, attend to the things, to the areas that we want to attend to. Often what happens in informal support is we end up talking about, you know, what we watched on Netflix last night. Yes. Or, you know, complaining about Terry counts or whatever.

[00:13:33] You know, we often end up doing that rather than the thing that we came together to do. So that's why more formal support can be more effective. And there are, you know, evidence-based for those more formal systems of support like coaching and supervision. There's already evidence that tells us they work and they're effective. Yeah, like I'm trying to think about like an organization.

[00:13:56] If they want, you know, if an organization wants to put some process or something in place to build in support, what's the best thing that they could do? Lots of people talk about one-to-ones. I think the difficulty, I hear people saying we should have more one-to-ones, you know. What happens in one-to-ones often is we talk about the output. We talk about the targets. We talk about what have you done? What's there still to do?

[00:14:24] And then, you know, it becomes like a kind of management, you know, performance management kind of monitoring kind of exercise. And we say we're going to talk about well-being and we don't. And then in those meetings also, though, there's like to be able to do this, you've got to be able to have a level of trust and vulnerability. And so often there's not that safety. So then it really doesn't work. Absolutely.

[00:14:52] I think those kind of power differentials are really important to take into consideration when we're thinking about support because it can be very difficult. If you're needing to be vulnerable and talk honestly about your challenges at work and the only person you've got to do that with is also responsible for, you know, doing your PDR and deciding whether you continue in your role or not. Right. Then that's a very difficult dynamic, isn't it? Yes, it is.

[00:15:22] Which leads so nicely into the next question. Like last time we talked, you had said that there were three levels of responsibility for this. The individual, the organization and professional bodies. I imagine you've done more thinking about this. Can you just sort of, you know, reflect on each level of responsibility in solving this? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:50] So I think that, you know, we all have the responsibility ourselves to be taking action that protects our well-being. Of course we do. And so there's always things that we can do as individuals that help us. And for example, you know, make sure we stay connected with our social network. We know that's a good thing for us and it's good for our well-being. You know, not drinking too much alcohol, making sure we exercise, et cetera, et cetera. We know the messages.

[00:16:19] So we have a responsibility. And if we're doing those things and we're likely to be well at work as well as outside of work, and there might be things that we can do specifically in work that are going to protect our well-being too. So setting clear boundaries, you know, those sorts of things, making sure we take regular breaks. But of course, as we start to move into thinking about those kind of measures, we start to think about the fact that actually in a workplace, we're in a context, we're in an environment.

[00:16:48] And the environment has an impact. So if my manager expects me to work solidly from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and never take a break, it's very hard for me to implement that as a measure to say, take even if it's five minutes. So there's an interaction then between what I might decide I need to do and what the organization's expectations are and the environmental factors around me. Yes.

[00:17:16] So then we move into the sort of environment. We move into the workplace environment. And of course, the workplace has a responsibility too. So as I said, if they're expecting me to work 8 to late every day and, you know, produce way beyond my capacity, then that's going to have an impact on my well-being. So organizations have a responsibility to be thinking about reasonable workloads.

[00:17:42] And by the way, workload came out top as the main source of stress for HR professionals in our survey and has come out as top consistently over three years of data. So organizations have a responsibility to be thinking about how to, you know, make sure those aren't excessive. But I think they also have a responsibility given the pressures that we're now realizing are affecting,

[00:18:10] that are affecting HR professionals and the unique sort of challenges that they face in their role. I think organizations have a responsibility, A, to be acknowledging that and recognizing it overtly. Yeah, there are psychological, psychosocial hazards associated with working in HR, you know, and we need organizations to be recognizing that and acknowledging it. And on the back of acknowledging and recognizing it, we need them to be thinking about how do we protect our workforce,

[00:18:38] our HR workforce in relation to those hazards. And that then, you know, leads us to thinking about, well, what are we going to put in place? How are we going to monitor people's well-being? Do we need to be doing that more closely? You know, how are we going to be making sure people are okay? What measures do we want to be putting in place? Do we want to be putting in more formal systems of support? So that's at the organizational level. And I think at the professional level, the level of the profession,

[00:19:08] it feels to me, you know, they have a responsibility to drive some of those solutions, to again be acknowledging the psychosocial hazards that are involved in doing the work that HR people do. They need to acknowledge it too. And I think they need to be not necessarily be providing the solutions,

[00:19:30] but encouraging organizations and advising organizations about what might be the best ways of protecting their HR teams and people. And I actually think that, you know, I think about my own profession and how I was trained in the methods and approaches of supervision during my core training as a clinical psychologist. And what that meant was that I was ready to supervise my colleagues once I qualified.

[00:19:58] And I actually think in the profession, we should be looking at a similar model in HR. You know, as part of your core training as an HR professional, you could be training in methods and approaches that are going to help other HR professionals to function as well as possible. So you could be training in coaching approaches, supervision approaches and so on. And then when you, you know, you come out of that training, you're ready to be supporting your colleague. Okay.

[00:20:27] Now, if a professional body or a group of HR professionals did actually want to do this, do we need to get a professional facilitator? When you say this, do you mean supervision or do you mean something else? Or just like, you know, a support group, like a place where people can come and share their troubles and feel a little bit lighter at the end? More informed, less alone and lighter at the end. So there are lots of different models out there. So there are self-help groups, for example.

[00:20:58] And there's nothing to stop groups of HR professionals getting together and establishing their own self-help groups so they don't have a facilitator where they meet together and they talk about the work and the impact of the work. But as I was saying earlier, there are some positives to those sorts of that type of model. And there were definitely some benefits to it, but there are also some downsides. So the kind of challenges of that kind of model are that before long,

[00:21:26] we find we're talking about what we watched on Netflix rather than talking about the things that we came to talk about. So then the framework is not there to keep us to task. And also, I think it can get difficult when people start to talk about things that are very, you know, emotionally challenging. Maybe they're talking about vicarious trauma. Maybe they're sharing things that are distressing.

[00:21:52] To not have a facilitator there or someone who's trained in, you know, group reflexive practice, for example, or supervision. It can leave the group feeling vulnerable and people within it feeling vulnerable. So I think if you have the resources, then having a facilitated model works better, is likely to be more effective and is likely to be more contained for the people who participate.

[00:22:20] It's likely to feel safer and more protected and more structured. And the structure helps people to feel contained and less vulnerable. So for someone out there who's doing this by themselves, who's in HR more or less by themselves, and they are struggling with the demands of it, what advice do you have for that individual?

[00:22:46] So I think there's a number of different options, you know, that person might have friends, they might have family. I would definitely start there. I would definitely be reaching out to your network outside of work. And actually, our friends and our family members are the people who care about us the most. They love us the most. They have our best interests at heart. So they are the ones most likely to really be invested in you being as well as possible.

[00:23:15] So they're likely to give you some pretty helpful advice. You might also want to speak to whoever is your line manager. You might want to ask for a stress risk assessment at work, for example. And I think this is, you know, a really helpful, you know, approach. It's a thing that you can access in the UK.

[00:23:37] I don't know if it's available in Canada, but there are templates available where you can do a stress risk assessment. You can talk about and identify what are the main sources of stress and what we're going to do about them. So it gives us an opportunity to have an open conversation about stress, about how it's impacting you and what the main sources might be, and to think about an action plan. And it also gives us an opportunity then to review that action plan.

[00:24:07] So, you know, there's a point for us kind of coming back together and checking in on the stress risk assessment and how we're progressing in relation. Yeah. So I would definitely recommend doing that. And I am aware that for some people, having that conversation with their manager is just not something that they're going to be able to do because they don't have the right, you know, the right relationship with their manager. So that's not always going to be possible.

[00:24:33] But if you do have, you know, a relatively positive relationship with your manager, I definitely recommend it. And I have to say, the number of people I meet who are surprised, pleasantly surprised when they approach their manager about their mental well-being is quite high. So I think often people have fears about what they're going to be like that aren't necessarily realised when they actually have the conversation.

[00:25:00] And just knowing that someone's interested in you getting better and being better. Yes. That alone might help. All right. Where can someone find the latest report and you? So I'd love you to connect with me on LinkedIn. So I am Dr. Jo Burrell on LinkedIn. And you can also download our report from our website.

[00:25:27] I'm sure you'll put the link in your show notes, ultimateresilience.co.uk. On the homepage, there's a button there. You can just click on the button and you can download our report and have a look. Well, thanks, Jo. So this is reminding me just how important social support is again. It's been coming up over and over and over on the channel. And, you know, it takes a while to build, but work on it out there. You should just work on it.

[00:25:55] Make sure you have that support network because you can improve it. I referred to the other conversation we had in over the winter and the link to that is right here. Thanks for watching out there. See you next time.