From Layoff to Liftoff: Building Career Insurance Before You Need It

[00:00:00] Welcome to the EVOLVE Talent & HR Show. We're building the rooms where HR and talent leaders learn, connect and evolve. I'm Anna Morgan, and this is the space where people first leaders come for courageous conversations. Whether you're leading from the C-suite, emerging as a new voice, building community, or driving change within your organization, this show is for you. Every episode brings voices that are driving change in the HR and talent community. We're going to get into the strategies, conversations, and the

[00:00:30] movements that matter. Because here's what we know. Every conversation matters. Every introduction, every shared experience, it creates momentum that extends far beyond the room. And that is the EVOLVE multiplier. When we collaborate, overcompete, when we connect with intention, the opportunities, the relationships, and the impact compound across our entire community. You've tuned into a podcast, but this is actually your connection to the entire EVOLVE ecosystem.

[00:01:00] New episodes come out weekly. Now it's your turn to EVOLVE. Welcome.

[00:01:33] Say hello, Vanita. Hi. Thank you for having me, Anna. You're on my podcast, Layoff to Liftoff, and so I'm so glad to be on yours. So thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great segue because when I think about community, because that's very much the core of what I'm building and has been a part of my career evolution, if you will, if my memory serves me right, Brian Fink introduced us. Yes?

[00:01:58] I think so. I'm not exactly sure either. I think I blame LinkedIn for everything that I see all these folks talking about their stories, their layoffs, their career transitions. So I tend to shoot my shot with messaging people on LinkedIn and also TikTok. But LinkedIn is my core. Awesome. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, you know, closed mouths do not get fit.

[00:02:22] That is true. I always say, and I tell my husband this all the time, too. I'm like, a no will always be a no until you ask. Exactly. Exactly. And and we'll get into this more. But it's also knowing when there is an equal exchange of energy when I talk about earning the right to make the ask. Right. Because there's nothing like, you know, not being around on the platform and then all of a sudden having a career crisis or fender bender and you need your community.

[00:02:52] But they don't know who you are, what you're all about, where you've been. And you're not able to get that access and make those asks because people are like, huh? You know, why are you again? Why do you need my help? Yeah. And there's something to be said about, especially like LinkedIn, where I have my biggest following there is like, I only started to post on LinkedIn in 2025.

[00:03:17] Like I really honed in on posting. And that was after my layoff in 2024. And just I kept talking about everyday stuff. Yeah. And honestly, like I meet some people. I was at a networking event last Thursday and a very analytical, insanely bright man approaches me for some LinkedIn advice. And, you know, my approach and success, you know, one goes from I'm not chasing the algo. Right.

[00:03:46] Right. I show up in service of my best self and my best future self. But I'm not chasing the trends and the hacks and all the things. And so he was outlining this whole process he has that he only follows people that have 30,000 followers. He makes the first comment. And how much time should he spend commenting? And I was like, oh, my goodness. That's you are getting in your own way. Like let the conversations be organic.

[00:04:13] Yes, you can train and where you show up. LinkedIn is going to show you more of that. But any time I've ever thought, I think I have this figured out. LinkedIn just changes something like takes away audio events, for example. Yeah, I think that's like any social media site. Right. Like once you think you have it down, something happens or they change something or some new feature comes out. I'm like, what is this? What do I have to learn now?

[00:04:36] So, you know, I'm sure his analytical brain did not appreciate my feedback because so much of mine is around commenting and public conversations convert to private. And leadership can be a little bit of everything, you know, and if you're curious of others, people will be curious of you. So I like that. I want to back up a little bit to understand more of your career journey. I believe you spent, what, a decade in HRAS and operations?

[00:05:06] So doing all the systems that, you know, people forget about. Back then, did you consider having a public presence? And, you know, I'm poking the ops people out there because I think they assume that building a brand and being visible on social media is only for like the creators and the recruiter influencers. Not at all. I talk about this to you all the time, like growing my career. I was at a company for 10 years.

[00:05:33] I was an analyst, started out as an analyst, worked my way all the way up to the senior director, primarily in HRAS, HR technology. So I was very comfortable in that job, in that role, in that company. I did not expect to get laid off from there. I thought I was going to retire from there. I will toot my own horn that I was an exemplary employee. I'm sure you were. You know, sometimes you got to admit it. You are a great employee. You're a great employee. So I didn't expect to be laid off.

[00:06:01] I want to pause there for just one second because for those folks in seats now, right, there's a small opportunity that is coming up for me when we're like, yeah, we got it. I'm, you know, I've gotten all great performance. Like my manager likes me. I haven't ruffled any feathers. So I am good.

[00:06:23] And in this current season where people are job-hunting for their life, right, you know, what were those actions, things, signals that gave you that comfort, which then made the news of the layoff just, you know, a whole different experience? It was all the things, right, the normal things of great performance reviews, great survey results, great team opportunities coming all the time. You had great relationships.

[00:06:53] I had great relationships with senior leadership. And, you know, I was told that I was going to be safe. And then a month later, I wasn't. So there's nothing. Well, and that's so hard because it's like, you know, you're investing in the networking and building the relationships and gaining that influence and access, right, which is really pivotal. I think for true change makers in talent in HR is really being able to drive that change through your connection with other stakeholders.

[00:07:22] And then they're even beholden to situations they don't necessarily have complete visibility. And, you know, my hope for you is that person who said that ended up not having the full picture. So they weren't necessarily dishonest with you is my hope. I don't think I'll truly ever know. And that's okay because I've moved past that now.

[00:07:48] And since then, I have, you know, done things that I would have never done before. And I think that too, that happening the way it did really changed something in my brain. Like something fundamentally changed in my brain and my mindset to be like, okay, Vanita, this corporate world that you were so cushy in, like it ain't all that cushy. And so you need to like figure out. Yeah, you might be a line on a spreadsheet when it comes down to it. Exactly. Right?

[00:08:17] So like I needed to do something different and something also too that I wanted to be proud of and own. And that's kind of how the podcast came about a year after my layoff. And now that part was intentionally. Awesome. Awesome. Now, at the time you were leading a team of like eight or 10, right? Yep. Yes. And then it's like, pack up your laptop. Thank you very much. Here's your severance. Like what did that first week look like?

[00:08:46] The week that I was told that I was laid off was just crying after crying, just crying fast. I'm a crier too. Well, I was the only one in my friends group that was fired. So that was that. Oh. So that was an interesting experience in itself because I was losing my community of people who became friends. Yes. And that I had to get used to. And then the Monday, what I didn't have to sign in was a weird, weird experience.

[00:09:16] It was eerie. I'm like, what do I do with my time now? What do I, what do I do? What do I do with my hands? Yeah. Like what? I can't sign on. So it was just, there was like about like a couple weeks where I would just get up with like a heavy, a heavy, like weight on my chest, not knowing what's next. I really had to like be by myself and figure out what I wanted to do because I didn't have a team behind me anymore to lean on. And that was very weird.

[00:09:44] The work family dynamic and those friends and that community. I know I've had my own bouts of loneliness. Yeah. The data from the World Health Organization definitely backs that up that we have a loneliness mental health crisis. It's reported, I think, that more than half of the United States residents report really struggling with loneliness.

[00:10:11] And, you know, I was always so lucky to have my cute buddy or my work husband. And I've definitely made it a priority to keep in touch with folks. But there's definitely, you know, a grieving process. And you go through the five stages of grief per se. When I had my layoff, which was earlier back in 2020, I had all these big ideas.

[00:10:34] We had been sent home and I was like, we can finally work on all the stuff that we don't have time to do. Like the job descriptions, the HRAS, the ops things, really to set up the team's future success. You know, when I, the world opened back up, right? And so I was just like buzzing with new ideas while I was answering the HR hotline. Not very qualified to do that per se, but, you know, learned every day more and more.

[00:11:04] And that expanded my skill set. But I remember getting the news and just like closing my laptop and thinking, oh my God. And then I walked down and my husband was in the living room. I was like, I got it. And then I sat down and wrote a raging, angry, hate email. That's right. And I hope you didn't send it. I hope you didn't like missend that. And I was like, no.

[00:11:32] And then I think we took a little trip up to Nashville to see some family. And I cried the whole way. I ate a lot of sugar. And yeah, it is super eerie. So you decided, like you went through this transformation. You felt this kind of shift, right? Which is common. I've experienced through different periods of my seasons of birth, right? So from, you know, mid-20s to mid-30s, mid-30s to mid-40s.

[00:12:01] And now I'm in this early 50s, which is so fun. But what did that look like for you? And how did you decide, I'm going to start building this and kind of what's next? So I didn't jump right into the job hunt. Like I didn't apply to a million jobs all at once. I was very intentional about what I was applying for because I wanted, I knew first of all, like what salary I wanted, like what I was willing to accept.

[00:12:28] Even if it was like looking for jobs that were not a senior director level, but lower levels, I knew like the salary band I was willing to accept. And then I really thought about like, do I want hybrid? Do I want remote? Do I want on-site? Definitely not on-site because I have two small kids. And that in itself is a whole thing. Were you remote or hybrid like during the- I was hybrid. Okay. I was hybrid. So, and then I was intentional. I think during my job search, which was three months, I applied to maybe 30 jobs.

[00:12:58] Which is amazing. Like in 2024, the average job search was minimum six months. So you must have been doing something- Lucky though. And when we talk about community and relationships- Yes. It does have to do a little bit with luck. And I'll tell you why. So that this job I'm on now- Right place, right time. So the job I'm in now, I saw it online and I knew that my previous employer had a relationship or some sort of relationship with my current employer. Yeah.

[00:13:25] So I was very close to, I had a good working relationship with like the head of benefits to my old job. And I was like, okay, I'm going to reach out to her. We worked very closely over the years. Yeah. I'm applying to this job. I'm like, do you happen to have a contact there that you can pass along my resume or give a referral to? Yeah. And yes, she did. So my resume eventually made its way to the hiring manager and the rest was on me to make a good impression during the interview and stuff like that.

[00:13:55] I just needed that foot in the door. So I do say it's a little bit of luck, but also that luck happened within the 10 years of being there, of building those relationships. Those touch points, right? Those breadcrumbs we talked about on my episode. It is the breadcrumbs of life, right? So you just never know. You never know. So while I was job searching, while I was doing one-on-ones with chief people officers, I would go into their office and just chat with them.

[00:14:24] I reached out to my recruiting network and said, hey, can you just connect me with some people in your network that I could just chat with? Not necessarily give me a job or look at my resume, but I just wanted to chat. Yeah. So I did that too. And then I invested in my skills. So like a lot of the jobs I was applying for wanted workday experience, which I did not have. I had Oracle. I had success factors, all the works, but not workday. Okay. So I went on to Coursera and this is not a plug.

[00:14:52] I'm not a partner with Coursera, but if they want to, I am here. So I signed up for two 10-hour online courses, self-paced, so I can at least talk about it. Yeah. And that's how I pitched myself on workday experience. And some people, you know, some companies were like, oh no, we must have workday experience. And I'm like, all right, you're not for me. Yeah. And here's the thing for people listening. And this is when I was coaching quite a bit.

[00:15:20] It's like, if you have the history and experience with similar platforms and are able to speak to the problem, the action, the result, and, you know, how you did that and your ramp up period for learning that tech and speak to that, you can usually make a good business case. The second thing is confidence. The storytelling element and, you know, just showing up in that closer energy.

[00:15:48] I think of it as a salesperson, but it's just confidence, right? Because you've accomplished ABC on Oracle and other platforms, this is how I would ramp up with a new platform. And because I've had this success with these other platforms, hiring authority can feel comfortable that I will have the same ramp up and, you know, be able to contribute within a reasonable amount of time.

[00:16:16] Precisely. And I was like, and you could steal this line, whoever's listening. I always said in my interviews, I was never an expert in the system I was implementing. I always had to learn it and learn it quickly to achieve the goal. So that was kind of my like my line that I always used in my interviews. Fantastic. And then one more point for folks, you know, that relate to these layoff stories.

[00:16:39] I, again, want to validate the power of reaching out to a mutual connection like you did through your former boss. And they people are willing to help. And I can't tell you how many times a merchandise manager or a finance manager would walk by my cube and be like, hey, this person reached out on LinkedIn. Can you give them a call? Right. It doesn't always work. And I think there is, it needs to be intentionality behind the messaging.

[00:17:09] Right. And that takes some time to develop those skills. So. Yes. I will say too, like a lot of people, more people than you know are willing to help and want to help. They just don't know how. Exactly. And if you outline maybe two or three, like ask. Yeah. You know, they're not going to know. A lot of people was like, were like to me like, well, if you need anything, let me know.

[00:17:35] I'm like, okay, I don't know exactly what I need in that moment of you telling me that. But maybe, you know, give me some time to like figure out, take a breather, figure out what I want next. And if I do need your help, I will ask. But I was very specific about what the ask was. Absolutely. And also, you know, first time you ask may not be the best way of asking, but you learn. And it's a, I like to say with anything, it's a muscle to exercise. So not being afraid.

[00:18:04] The messaging is important. People do pass along referrals. Yeah. Leveraging your network. But, you know, if you're not a part of LinkedIn and have at least a complete profile, a decent amount of connections and, you know, a landing page that says who you are, what you're all about, where you've been, where you want to go, then you're making your search a little bit harder. But, you know, I think people need to get over the fact of not being present online.

[00:18:33] Yes, you don't have to tell your whole life story and anything personal. But the world we live in is like people do search you online and they do search you on LinkedIn. And it's kind of weird if you don't have a LinkedIn profile, if you're in the job search, depending on your role, of course. On your role. Exactly. I mean, I've come across people that are just like, no, Anna, I ain't playing the LinkedIn game. I will take my chances. And I'm like, I am not judging.

[00:19:00] But this has been a proven way to a next opportunity, you know, for myself and hundreds of people that I've coached. Let's see if we can do this. Or that particular situation is probably not the right client for me now that I'm reflecting back. So today you are managing a full time role. I would imagine remote or hybrid while putting in the reps for your podcast.

[00:19:26] So tell us a little bit more about the skills that you've developed through this transition and maybe a little bit more on what you might have wanted to build prior to your layoff. Prior to my layoff, I didn't want to build anything, to be quite honest. I used to look back and on my LinkedIn specifically, I used to post about the company and like all the cool events they were having. I'm sure they thanked you. I was a really great employee. I'm telling you, I was.

[00:19:55] Did you just reshare the company post? No, I. Well, I left it. The post is up there still, but I used to write my own and make it heartfelt. And like I would talk about my family and stuff like that. Like I was like really into it. And also like the team I was on, they were great. Anyway, so I would only post about that. And then after my layoff, I started being more personal. I didn't dive into talking about my HR tech skills. I didn't talk about that.

[00:20:24] I wanted to be the more human side of it and talk about mindset and believing yourself. And, you know, I talked about like the podcast and books I was reading during my layoff. I was talking about that I got into running. And when my kids went to school, it was the first time I was really alone to be in my thoughts and feelings. And I went for a run. And that's how I started getting into running because I would go out. That was like my thing to like get out of my head and get out from behind the computer and just run.

[00:20:54] Yeah. So I talked a lot about that journey, that personal journey, that mindset change and everything like that. And so I kind of documented my layoff journey a little bit. I wasn't too crazy about it because I was just starting to post more. So it was just fully like text. It wasn't even video. A good text post can go a long way.

[00:21:15] But when you think back to, I'd say, you know, pre-layoff Benita, like what would you tell our listeners to post while they are employed? You know? Post about anything. Even I'm employed now at a nine to five and I post pretty much very frequently on LinkedIn. And it's not always about my podcast. I was posting about I had six meetings. I have two kids at home from summer. I really want them to go back to school. I didn't have to pack for a vacation.

[00:21:43] Like I was just talking about how it was a lot going on. And I can't fully be present for every single thing. So many people feel like that right now. Normal things that people can relate to. Like I post about recipes, healthy recipes. recipes for baking and stuff. Because like people are more than just their job title. They're a parent. They're a spouse. They're a pet lover. Anything. There are so many things. You're not just one box. Yes. And somebody can relate to anything.

[00:22:11] Somebody posted yesterday about going to Las Vegas to see Backstreet Boys and spending an incredible amount of money. I'm like, please go because I just went and I loved it. And it's a life changing experience. So go. Oh, I'm going to be out in Vegas in October. I'll have to see if that's still there. Well, speaking of content that, you know, you're like, yes. One of my friends posted something about Martha Stewart and learning how to fold a fitted sheet. Yeah.

[00:22:42] And the conversations were hilarious. Like I'm a massive Martha Stewart fan. I have a new home. I've been doing tons of laundry and wrestling with my fitted sheets. But I haven't taken the time to go to YouTube to get a tutorial. So I was like, can we just have a party? A Martha Stewart party? And everyone bring their own fitted sheets. There you go. Can we make a night of it? So that might be another evolved table event coming. To fold a fitted sheet.

[00:23:13] I'm just going to wrap it up and put it in a pillowcase. So that's my folding. So for people listening, like whether you're an individual contributor or the CHRO, like it's just about starting. And I think I shared this on your podcast. For me, I found my visibility confidence in the comments, which is where I was spending a lot of time. And then I was like, oh, I can repurpose that for a post. Even though it was terrifying at the time.

[00:23:39] Did you check your social media policy, check in with a manager, study other people's profiles that you work with just to ensure that you felt safe making those posts by chance? I will be honest. I did not check my social media policy, but I should. But a lot of my coworkers and even my boss are on my LinkedIn and they see it and they comment about my podcast all the time during meetings or just in conversation. Yeah.

[00:24:09] And even like the head of my department wanted to share it. That's awesome. On a quarterly meeting or something. And at first I was like, oh no, I don't want you to share it. But then I'm like, why not? Just do it. Why not? It's who you are, right? Like we take ourselves to work and, you know, so many people are struggling with masking and, you know, that corporate persona. And like you're saying, I feel like letting your community, coworkers included, see different

[00:24:35] sides of you really add some depth to your humanity, which for me, I think saved me from layoff because I had a number of followings. I was well-respected in the space and it gave me the space for me to make the decision, you know, the second time around versus the first time. So I will say though, like when I am talking on podcasts like this or even my own or even

[00:25:02] in my posts, I never ever mentioned my employer's name. You can go onto my LinkedIn and find out where I work. That's totally fine. It's public knowledge. But like I make it a point not to talk about it. Yeah. Unless it's a specific company post or a coworker shout out or an anniversary. I will say too that my coworkers, like I had somebody message me on Teams and said just randomly out of the blue that they like my LinkedIn content. And I'm like, really? You do?

[00:25:30] And this is somebody I don't really talk to much. They just randomly message me. I'm like, oh my God, thank you so much. So when you think people are not looking, they are looking. And that doesn't have to be scary. Embrace it. On the side of that, like people freak out that people are looking. Yeah. And it's like we are not that important. Exactly. People are scrolling. They generalize and distort. So you do have to be clear in what you're posting.

[00:25:55] But thank you for validating this because overall, you know, multiple people I've talked to in my own experience. Assuming I'm you're in the guardrails of the policy and, you know, showing up in a professional and authentic way, your coworkers are surprised and delighted to learn those different sides about you. People you like I didn't know would walk through HR and they'd be like, I love what you're doing on LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. And so it worked.

[00:26:25] But the flip side, there could be situations where I can look back five years now and see that, you know, my direct boss may have been a little threatened through my LinkedIn as expertise and visibility and influence and access. Which potentially is what prioritized me getting the boot versus others. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some things are out of your control at that point. Right.

[00:26:51] Like you can't help what other people think or how they react. Yeah. Whatever comes your way, comes your way and you deal with it because you've dealt with so much more, so much worse in your lifetime. Yeah. So for like just start and keep it simple. Just start. What would you advise people to never post on LinkedIn? What would you never post? Don't post anything like confidential, of course. I think that goes without saying anything confidential about your job. Sure. Sure.

[00:27:21] Or anything that needs to be private, any proprietary stuff. Like don't post about that. And I guess that's where it goes back to your social media policy to look into. Mm-hmm. And don't post anything that you wouldn't feel comfortable looking back on a year from now and, you know, saying like, ooh, I shouldn't have posted that. Like just, you know, I mean, sometimes. It would take 24 hours. Yeah.

[00:27:46] Through my recovery journey, I've learned most of the time restraint of pen and tongue and everything looks different, you know, 24 hours later. Yeah, you know, that's a good point. Yeah. That's a good point because, you know, all these social media platforms have scheduling options. So, like, if you write your post and schedule it and say, okay, maybe I'll come back to it and see if I still feel this way, then that maybe is a good strategy.

[00:28:12] If you know yourself that you're just, you know, being angry in the moment and you're just going to post and maybe take a step back. Yes. Don't post it right away. Awesome. So, full-time running, managing kids, and continuing to build your podcast. Yeah. You know, why continue building the podcast as a creative outlet, as a way to learn from others?

[00:28:36] I'm curious on kind of your vision for the future alongside of your career. So, the first episode was five minutes long. It was my own story. Those are hard. I talked for like an hour and 20 minutes to myself. I was like, I think I need to go back to therapy. I don't know. It was just five minutes. The editing was more than that because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. And then I eventually shot my shot and, you know, reached out to people to be on the podcast and they said yes.

[00:29:05] I had no idea where this was going to go. I had no idea how long I was going to keep this up for. I don't have a set schedule on releasing episodes. I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm pretty much the same, even though I've got some decent support behind me. Yeah. Podcasting is harder than people think it is. Oh, my gosh. Yes. It's so hard. The people that I looked up to in this space, like Adam Posner, literally on our recording, he was like, Anna, ask one question.

[00:29:35] I was like, let me reframe that. Delete. Get that. Yeah. You just learn. You learn what works and doesn't. Those three pillars is what the foundation. So, like, I don't have to worry about, you know, coming up with questions. It comes up organically. Yeah. But, like, I don't have to come up with specific questions to ask my guests. That is what we're talking about. I got you.

[00:30:03] But anyway, year one, foundation, figuring it out, seeing what works. Year two, I don't have it figured out. I have no idea what I'm doing. Wait. Is this the next right thing? So, what I mean, I don't have any sponsors. I don't have any ads. It's a $0 not making any money. So, like, you know, let's figure that out. What's happening in that space. That is a new territory I have no idea about. It is humbling. I'm sure. This is where it's helpful to have community and people that you can call on.

[00:30:34] I mean, you have community in your full-time job, but they're not going to want to talk about. Exactly. Podcasting best practices and how to pitch a brand and vice versa. And that's where I've been so lucky to be able to pick up the phone to people that are ahead of me and be like, am I on the right track? Like, I need you to be my podcast cube buddy for a minute. Yeah. Yes. And I am working to, like, build some sort of community. Like, I do know other podcasters, so I can ask them questions.

[00:31:00] But, yes, I do want to make it a point to also get out behind from the computer and do more in-person events and chat with people. So, looking at you, Anna. That's right. Right. Well, I mean, that's a perfect segue. Like, I've been geeking out on the research, right, about loneliness, how Gen Z is going analog. And there is a huge investment in hospitality and events and entertainment. And everyone seems to be like, I need to get out.

[00:31:30] Yeah. You know, as someone who's positioning themselves as the go-to resource to build spaces where HR and talent leaders can connect, learn, and evolve, I'm thrilled.

[00:31:42] Because I've seen the crazy, unexpected ripple effect and impact that comes from building these tables and these rooms and passing the mic to new speakers and having the conversation with great leaders like yourself so that the word spreads that community and investing in conferences and things like that are a great engagement and ROI play for your team.

[00:32:12] Like, if you haven't taken your team to a conference, like, take a look at that. It is an awesome opportunity. And there's so many great ones to choose from in our space, from smaller to massive, right?

[00:32:25] But like I said, the career insurance and career acceleration conversations that can happen and how I'm curating some of these spaces is super fun and creative and igniting for me because I have the industry expertise. So I can look at a table and say, hey, Vanita, go sit next to Brian Fink and ask him about this particular rec ops challenge that you shared with me that you're having.

[00:32:53] And then just watching, like, the mind blow moments between people. And, you know, that's where my Martha Stewart years of entertaining comes in and, you know, just a new season. Your fitted sheets moments. My fitted sheet. I know. It's like, I mean, there was a post I saw or I think I shared it on Instagram where in New York City they were playing like Ring Around the Rosie. Yes. Where you pull the chairs. I saw that. I saw that.

[00:33:23] We're totally doing something like that at a next Evolve event. So as you've sat in corporate and various roles, like what conversations have you been a part of where leadership is making decisions about investing in their teams in a community conference learning capacity? Like, have you been a part of this? At my old company, I would look for opportunities for my team. All right. And then pitch that. There you go. Say a well for the people in the back.

[00:33:53] You've got to look for your own opportunities. Nobody is going to call your name, maybe if you're lucky. But like sometimes you've got to make your own opportunities and nobody's going to actually know that you want to do something if you don't speak up. Yes. And say you want to go to this thing. Luckily, I had supportive leadership who, you know, would send me to things or I would say like, okay, maybe I don't need to go. But so and so on my team have never been. I think it will be a great opportunity for them.

[00:34:22] Can I have them go instead? And even in my current role, I have two people reporting to me and they've been there for quite some time. But I see that they don't really get out and go to conferences. And I'm like, yeah, we're going to start easy. We are in the tri-state area in New York. There are lots of things going on. So maybe we can do a day conference somewhere. Maybe you can go to this thing. There are so many virtual webinars and stuff like that.

[00:34:50] So I'm constantly looking for opportunities, not only for myself, but if you are in charge of people, it is your responsibility as a good manager and a leader to look for those opportunities too for your team. A hundred percent. And that's what I make it a point to do. So I'm not necessarily waiting to be told, but more so pushing it out like this is what I would like to do and see where it lands.

[00:35:14] Well, and I felt like I was living in the dark age for the longest time because I'm like pounding out 45 recs and top producer and agency world. And then what was it? In around 21, 22, I started going to conferences and speaking and doing market research. And the way my brain just pays attention. I was, you know, gathering all these ideas and ways that I see like they're doing it great. This is what I might change.

[00:35:43] And it really has supported me in my own career pivot where I've decided sunset my recruiting practice and my coaching practice and all in on Evolve. Because, you know, I believe so greatly in what is possible and just my own transformation, being in community with peers and learning through dinner conversations and travel experiences.

[00:36:10] And I mean, it's just blown up my world. And so if I can create more spaces like that from an abundant, I want everyone to win, it's not competition, we're all working to elevate the world of work. And so how can we get more people into these events? And, you know, it is a hard business. And I can only imagine there's so many logistics you have to think about. And like, I wouldn't even know where to start, to be quite honest.

[00:36:39] That's why I want to light it on fire and say like, I'm moving to Portugal and changing my name. But I ain't stopping. Good for you. Don't stop. And if it brings you joy too, like you also asked me like, why do I keep going with the podcast? Because it brings me joy. Yes. And I fully believe like after anything you're going through hard in life, there is something that can bring you joy.

[00:37:04] It doesn't have to be something crazy or mind-blowing or even like cost any money. Something as simple as going for a walk can bring you joy. Looking at bunnies on your walk with my children brings me joy. Absolutely. We're always looking for the alligators when we were walking in Florida. Okay. That would bring me anxiety, not joy. But yeah, it continues to bring me joy because I got to meet people that I would have never met before.

[00:37:32] And so people that are like lonely, a little bit depressed, like overwhelmed and overburdened and under-resourced, which is pretty much the common profile of lots of people leaders, just taking that next right step to get out. And it doesn't have to be a massive thing. Like I was invited tonight to a new event by someone who's attended Evolve and is a, you know, similar entrepreneur.

[00:37:58] And once I registered, then I see it's an hour and a half away from me. And I'm like, crap. In Atlanta, that is unreasonable. And she had prefaced before that it's her friend's first, you know, event. And I was like, I got to go. I got to go to support another woman because so many others, especially women, have shown up for me when I was building something new and uncomfortable. So that's what I'm saying yes to.

[00:38:28] And I know by saying yes to that, I will take something away that will help me continue either elevating my mindset, my spirit, or give me new ideas or evolve. My challenge to people who are listening to this is say yes to something you won't typically say yes to. Yes. And because you just never know what you're going to get out of it. And a lot of 2025 was me saying yes to things. Like, I said yes to a bunch of things that people messaged me on LinkedIn. And I was like, you know what? Why not?

[00:38:58] I would never have said yes to this before. So I'm just going to see what's happening. And, you know, I have met some incredible people along the way. And, you know, you go, you get some food, meet people, and you have a good time. Yeah.

[00:39:10] And I mean, from a logistic standpoint, for those, you know, that maybe don't have the managers that are looking out for them, like, go to your computer right now and set some reminders, like once a quarter, or set up an AI agent to make some research for you so that, you know, you can then go to your manager.

[00:39:30] And they're oftentimes on conference websites where you can grab, what do I say to my boss that I need $1,600 and two and a half days off, right? Because they're looking at that number and like, what am I going to get for that? Yeah. And then you get the acceptance, how you navigate and what your strategy is at the conference is a whole nother conversation and something I'm working on seeing if I can unlock, like, what I do. That is a good one. Yeah.

[00:39:59] Because, like, some of these conferences, like, I think about the Workday conferences, SuccessFactors, they're huge. Oh, my gosh. I went to my first user conference back in the spring. It was called WorkHumanLive. Yes. Okay, again. I've never been, but I've seen it. I had never been to a user conference. And I was like, this is like the Wizard of Oz. I was like, can evolve be like this?

[00:40:23] And I'm like, wait, they are a SaaS platform, a recognition platform, and they make billions of dollars. Of course, they have these incredible activations. But it also can be very overwhelming. As somebody attending, you're overwhelmed by just everything around you. But there's so many people, too. Yeah. And it's hard to navigate. And that's what's something I found difficult, too. Like, I've been to HR Tech in Vegas. I've been to... I'm going there for my first time this fall. It's very fun. It's very fun.

[00:40:53] But it's huge. It's being in Vegas. I've been in Vegas earlier this year. How I'm still alive, I'm not sure. But it could be overwhelming. And if you're going with, like, somebody who you're close with on your team, and you might feel the need or comfort to, like, stick together and not venture out. So, you know, conferences to me... You ever pick up a conference BFF friend when you've gone alone? No, I haven't. Well, I mean, I talk to people, but I haven't, like... Okay. I don't think I'm good at big conferences.

[00:41:24] I think... That's what I like about Evolve. I have not been to Evolve. But I know... I'm 27. And that's my goal. But I... Like small, intimate conferences. And I think, you know, there's a place in time for all of them. And, like, where I'm envisioning, and I've gotten a lot of feedback, you know, post-COVID, a lot of our EQ, social skills, networking skills have become a little dulled. Yes. And people are like, I'd rather just stay home than talk to people or talk about myself.

[00:41:52] And so creating a space at the beginning, like the night before a conference, bringing people together, going through a framework, ideas of how to do this, and being intentional. Who do I want to meet? What sessions are important? What are the challenges I'm having in my particular role right now that I think the episode by, you know, the session by Tracy Spoonenberg would, you know, land. And then, you know, who do you want to meet?

[00:42:20] It doesn't have to be quantity over quality. Yeah. And then bringing people back together, the nice thing is they meet before the conference. So you walk in, and you have this little mini army of people that know your name. They know what you proclaimed that your strategy is through the frameworks I teach. And they can help connect you, right? They can say, oh, I know that you were looking to meet Vanita. I saw her at booth 33, you know. Yeah. And make those introductions.

[00:42:50] Then finally, like, I don't know if you've had this experience, but you go to a conference, you meet all these people, you have all these touch points and follow-ups and collaborations, and you're just so excited. And then you get back to your computer. And how much of that do you execute? Exactly. None. How nice would it be to even have, like, for me, I'm like six hours just to sit down and look through everyone I've met, digest the conversations, journal a little bit. It's like alchemizing the experience.

[00:43:17] Then before you go right back into, you know, entrepreneurship or corporate life, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally agree. Would you join something like that? Yeah. I'll say yes to anything. Thank you. Which I would say no to. Well, I can't wait to hopefully have you come to the next Evolve conference. As I said, we are targeting the first two weeks of October of 2027.

[00:43:42] And I'm being really selfish and strategic at the same time around planning this because year two about killed me. And I was tired of fighting with ice and snow. That's true. And being delayed and stuff like that. And kiddos. You know, I have a senior in high school and it flies by and I don't want to miss anything. And I want to be present. So I'm making my Evolvers wait. You know what? It's okay. You got to do what works best for you. Everybody's learning.

[00:44:12] You iterate and that's how you move forward. Yeah, exactly. Well, I can't wait for you to come to Atlanta. I have had so much fun on this conversation. Share with our listeners the best place to find you. And we'll put the links to your podcast as well as LinkedIn and anything else that is important that you want to share here. Thank you. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Benita Capobianco. I don't know if I'm the only Benita Capobianco, but maybe. I think you're the only Benita.

[00:44:41] I know a couple other Capobiancos. Okay. Okay. There you go. And then more importantly, Laid Off to Lift Off is such a great resource for those who are in the midst of a career transition they did not ask for. The goal is to provide stories of resilience and hope in a time where I think we need it the most. And to know that you are more than a job title and you deserve to believe it. So it's on Spotify, Apple, YouTube. Share with a friend. Comment, follow. All that jazz to keep it going.

[00:45:10] Comment, follow. I love it. Look at us. We are podcasters and provide great resources. You made me think when we were talking about what to post, I'm going to include an old resource that I had that just has tons of ideas. Very much what you said. What podcast? What books? Yeah.

[00:45:29] Why you picked up running, you know, again, documenting a little bit of your journal, your journey for our audience so they can download that or know where to find it after we get the episode posted. There you go. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Keep evolving and we'll hopefully see you in fall of 27. Thank you. All righty. Thanks for joining the Evolved Talent in HR show. If the conversation landed, share it. Tell it later. Pass it forward.

[00:45:58] That is the multiplier in action. One connection at a time, building momentum across our community. And that is what Evolve is. We build the rooms where connection compounds into impact. So don't sleep on the in-person experiences, the IRL conferences, the executive tables, the fringe events, our community. Show up. That's where the multiplier multiplies. If you know, you know. Head over to evolve-conference.com to see what's evolving and how to stay connected.

[00:46:27] We'll see you next time.