Free Money, Roth Accounts, and Your First Real Job | with Todd Roselle

[00:00:00] Hello, hello. You're tuning into the Careering with Cameron Podcast, your safe place to ask all the dumb questions about finding a job. Hey everybody, it's Kevin with Careering with Cameron, and I am joined once again by my friend Todd Roselle, founder and financial genius to most people I work with. So Todd's joining us today on what we're going to call maybe a back-to-school special, now that everybody's going back to school, right?

[00:00:30] We're going to do the back-to-school special, and there's a lot of questions we're getting from students, Todd, about starting school, finishing school. We unfortunately don't really have a mechanism in place on either end of that to say like, hey, there's this thing called money, and if you figure it out early, you're going to be a lot happier longer term.

[00:00:49] So aside from piggy banks and savings accounts and things like that, let's kind of dig into that in terms of like, what are you seeing now for students? And like, how do we support them while we're helping them kind of figure out, A, paying rent, and then all the way into like, I have a job?

[00:01:07] Yeah, it's definitely interesting, and being in this industry for over 20 years and obviously being a college grad myself, so I've seen how things have evolved over really the last 30 in that space. You know, we saw a large change for parents recently where the parent plus loans are now limited to $65,000 per student, period. So there's really not a lot of money there like there used to be.

[00:01:35] So I don't know if that's going to fully change the economics of college, if it's going to change the demographics of college because of who has access to funds at this point. It's really tough to say how it's going to work. But, you know, if you go way back 30 years ago, you know, 25 years ago when student loans became really available for everyone, the intention was good, right? The intention was to give access to a college education to everyone, no matter where they came from.

[00:02:02] You know, we know now with the lack of blue-collar professionals that we have, trades professionals, that that, you know, initiative to get kids into college worked really well because it took away from the other side with the trades. So, you know, I don't know how the pendulum is going to swing moving forward, but we're seeing real challenges for parents, especially parents that have multiple children that they're trying to put through school.

[00:02:27] But then also for kids when they are leaving the workforce or leaving college rather to enter the workforce, you know, getting a job that's going to match up with the debt that they owe unless they're fortunate enough to have college fully paid for by the time that they finish, which is, you know, a real blessing these days for some of these kids. So it's challenging. I mean, it's challenging for parents and for students. And, you know, we're going to see how things shake out, but the landscape has changed very quickly.

[00:02:54] So my daughter, for example, she went into college in 2022. Her boyfriend, 2022 as well. They just graduated last year, 2025. And her boyfriend went in for a programming degree. He wanted to write code and do all these things that, you know, the computer, you know, you couldn't do on your own. Yep. You needed the skills to be able to do it. Obviously, we know, you know, how that story has evolved in the last three years.

[00:03:22] So it's a very interesting landscape across the board when we're talking about, you know, AI, when we're talking about evolution and so forth. So we're going to see what's going to happen with these kids. But there's a lot of talk out there that we're going to see a lot of micro entrepreneurs over the course of the next 10, 20, 30 years that are just offering services as opposed to, you know, potentially going into the traditional job world like we've known it for the last, you know, 100 or so years. And, you know, who knows what's actually going to happen?

[00:03:52] Yeah. You know, that's really interesting, especially thinking about if you have this micro environment where you've got students forming their own organizations or companies and running those. And the upside downside of that would be if they do really well, great.

[00:04:11] If they don't and they now need to enter a workforce 20 years into their career, that's going to present a pretty significant challenge for people to assess, to acclimate to a culture, understand what it's like to work for somebody in many cases. And what does that really mean? So that's going to be really wild to kind of watch what's happened. Yeah, we'll see.

[00:04:36] I mean, you know, they're saying they meaning whoever they are, that the white collar jobs are the ones that are going to be eaten first by AI. But it's going to force evolution. And any time we've had any kind of, you know, advancement in technology in the past, we've always seen a workforce evolution. So, you know, it'll be very interesting to see, you know, how things evolve here and whether it turns into that micro entrepreneurial environment or if it flips the other way. And, you know, everyone is in a situation where they're working for only a small number of employers.

[00:05:04] It'll be it'll be tough to say. Yeah. You know, I go back to the lovely age of 1999, many, many years ago when I started in staffing and we were faxing resumes to hiring managers and then waiting by the fax machine for the confirmation to come through to know that they received it because we didn't have email. Right.

[00:05:26] And so, you know, that was the email component was a big, big swing forward for us because it sped things up and you could do things faster. The generation before that had computers and computers were going to do terrible things to the workforce. And it feels an awful lot like maybe they didn't necessarily do terrible things, but they did force us to be better than we were before.

[00:05:50] And, you know, I think that there's an awful lot of chatter about how terrible AI is going to be for everybody. When in reality, I think AI is a really great resource, probably not your solution if you want to cut a corner. But there's a resource that's there. And if you if you want to do the time to understand how it works and what you're actually trying to sell for, you can use it.

[00:06:17] But it is interesting to watch this sort of evolution and probably the same way you'll have micro organizations starting up and how powerful they may be. So maybe it's a point of putting them together. But, you know, the college funding piece is pretty frightening and not just the Phasma forums, which, you know, if you don't have kids that have started college yet and you meet Phasma forums soon, you're welcome, because you'll have you'll have nightmares. You'll probably need a CPAP machine at the end of that.

[00:06:45] But but, you know, there's a whole world that starts at that point. One of them, I think, is college students realizing, hey, I need to have some money stored away here for when I'm doing X, Y and Z activities, whether it be Greek life or it be sports or it be just going to school. And I saw that you had a post out not long ago where you were talking to somebody about what should you bank on for retirement?

[00:07:15] And you had a great line and I've quoted it multiple times, which was whatever you think you need to live on monthly at a zero, which I love. What what do we tell kids going into college at this point about like, what do you think you're going to need monthly? Yeah. Well, you know, we've we've been trained to think of things in terms of our monthly bills. Right. Subscriptions and expenses. And we've really been trained in that fashion.

[00:07:44] So, you know, it's really tough until you're actually in it to understand what it is that you're going to need. And with housing being so, you know, unaffordable for so many young people, there's there's a lot there. And it's it should take it should take kids should take the time to learn, you know, what does rent look like? What does a mortgage look like? How does it work? What do I have to put down? Like, those are all the things because, you know, when you look at your hierarchy of needs, sleeping inside is probably pretty high on that that list.

[00:08:14] So, you know, that that's really the first thing that I would do is take a look at what, you know, maybe mom and dad are doing and and look at that for yourself just so that you can get an idea. Obviously, the Internet can can help you as well, you know, put together a budget. So but a couple of things, too, as you as you think about this transition, not only for kids headed into college, but also for parents footing the bill.

[00:08:37] So if you go back to when, you know, our kids were in daycare, for example, daycare back in the day, I don't even remember what the numbers were, but it was like, I don't know, two, three, four hundred dollars a week. Something crazy. I can't imagine what it is today. Yeah. But when our kids went to school, we got a raise. Yep. So now if we think about this from the parents perspective, as kids are coming out of college, we may very well be getting a raise.

[00:09:02] And it's one of those things where, OK, for parents, you're going into those high earning years, the highest earning years maybe that you've ever had for the next 10 or 15 years. Like creating a plan for the parents is just as important as it is for the kids. Great. When we start to also think about the the kids going into college for those that are under the age of 18, you know, we have access to those Trump accounts now, which will allow money to grow tax free and sit there for an extended period of time. And of course, we know that they're going to be the best thing ever.

[00:09:32] Right. So yeah, like the name or not, it's it's something that is is being offered that parents should really strongly consider taking a look at to be able to put five thousand dollars away per child per year until they're 18. And that can act as a really good boost for them when they get to retirement. Something else to consider when we talk about FAFSA.

[00:09:53] So you just mentioned the the financial aid form that parents have to fill out to determine whether or not they're lucky enough to get some sort of financial aid from schools or qualify for the ability to take loans. Right. There's a calculation that the FAFSA takes into account. So, you know, how much income you have, how much you have in assets, how much the child has in income, how much the child has in assets. And one thing to consider.

[00:10:20] And again, this is not a recommendation, but one thing to consider that doesn't come up on the FAFSA form. So if you if you're on that borderline, 200, 250 thousand dollars of income or less, something to consider is hold your five twenty nine plan. If you have one, the college education savings plan that you can put money into over the course of time, take money out, let it grow tax free, then take money out tax free.

[00:10:42] If those expenses are paired with assets that come out of that five twenty nine plan and their college, you know, school accredited institution expenses, maybe hold those assets in grandmom and grandpa's name. So, you know, that's something that wouldn't show up on that FAFSA form, but it could allow you to have some extra funds that are available for for paying for college at that time. So that's just another tool in the toolbox to consider.

[00:11:08] Yeah. And then last but not least, when we talk about we look at the the workforce and how it's changed over the years and we look at technology and how things have changed over the years and what we've seen. And I've seen this a couple of times recently for some reason, but productivity in the last 50 years has just been it's just been an up into the right astronomical increase in the way of productivity. And the middle class has said, you know, wage wage growth hasn't kept pace.

[00:11:38] And, you know, there's a reason for that, and it's because the wage earner isn't necessarily the one that's putting out the same level of effort as they were 50 years ago. And what I mean by that is we have these tools, these cell phones, these computers, these other technological tools that are actually helping us be more productive. So while technology has helped us be more productive, the wages haven't necessarily kept pace with that. And I think AI is just going to make it, you know, even worse if you're comparing the two.

[00:12:07] I don't think that they're necessarily appropriate to be paired with one another because the point of technology is to create more productivity with less effort. So, you know, understanding how to solve the problems of people that are willing to pay to have those problems solved, whether it's in an entrepreneurial environment or whether it's in a W-2 environment where you're an employee and adding value in that context. I think the people that figure that out and lean into that are the ones that are going to come out as winners as time goes by.

[00:12:37] So, yeah, that's that's yeah. I mean, that's the really giving it some thought and figuring out what makes sense for the person, but also getting comfortable with you're going to be learning. And if you don't like to learn, that's going to be your toughest battle. Yeah, you're learning the whole way through even into retirement. And I think that's a little different as well.

[00:13:01] I think I like to think that previous generations were not quite as under the gun to continue learning through their 60s, 70s, 80s. Whereas I think this generation is the first one that we've seen the floor change multiple times. Yeah. And so the learning is not going to stop. And if you're not keeping up with it, you're just not going to be part of the conversation. Yes. That's just it. But so you're young, you've got, you know, all the time and energy in the world and no credibility.

[00:13:31] And then as we get older, we've got the credibility, but then maybe not the time. And I think that we're going to see that. I'm wondering if those axes are going to cross and it's going to require that we either reinvent ourselves or this generation is going to need to reinvent themselves or continue to learn because things are moving very, very fast. Yeah. This is another whole podcast we're going to do at some point, Todd, around people who retire and reinvent themselves. Because this is something we are seeing an awful lot of right now.

[00:13:59] It's happening actually at the same point we're going to get into next, which is the kids are done with college. They've received the raise. The earnings are going up. And they want to spend maybe a few years continuing that trajectory. And then they're going to retire and do what they really always wanted to do, but they were told they couldn't. And so that's next time. But I now want to flip the switch to the other side of the fence.

[00:14:20] So we're getting to the point where maybe we're a junior, senior in college, putting things together in terms of like what's next and the fear of, you know, I'll never forget the first year out of school. We got to September and there's that feeling of like, oh, that schedule doesn't change. I just do this every day. It never stops. There's no, there's no like Wednesday afternoon happy hour because classes are out. This, this is not good. I, I, I was sold a bill of goods here. This is, this kind of sucks.

[00:14:50] So, you know, what, what would your, what would your counsel be when you're starting that first job? You get the benefit information. It's got, you know, a 401k in there. It's got all kinds of things. Maybe I doubt there's a pension anymore, but certainly it might be profit sharing, things like that. What's the focus? What do you look at first? So I think that I still remember my first real, first real job. And I remember walking in there thinking like, oh my gosh, like these people are adults. Number one.

[00:15:22] Number two, they're so smart. They've been doing this forever. How am I ever going to, you know, make a name for myself or move up or, you know, have credibility? I'm just this, you know, kid that was still going to college at the time working at night or, you know, going to college at night working during the day. I was like, how is this ever going to work? And I think that what you realize is that you get out what you put in. And, you know, I remember that there was the crotchety old lady that walked around the corner.

[00:15:51] There was the, the guy that, you know, you could tell that he had long nights a lot of times and would come into work. And, you know, he would still be working there as an adult and, you know, in a position where you're like, how does this work? And I think that, you know, you don't understand that environment until you're in it because it was very scary. I mean, I was, I was legitimately, you know, afraid.

[00:16:13] And then over the course of the first, you know, six months or a year, it's like you kind of settle in and you realize like, okay, if you work hard, if you try, if you care, and if you, if you effort, I always call it efforting. If you effort, things will work out. And, you know, initially it's really tough to understand how that's going to equate to you being able to pay your bills. But if you continue to do those things, then paying your bills will be easier over time.

[00:16:39] And, you know, depending on what the living situation is, that's probably the biggest thing that, you know, kids coming out of school really have to figure out whether they're going to, you know, take on roommates and, you know, live in Philly or, you know, whatever it is that they want to do. And there's the whole, you know, I'll come, there's a lot that comes along with that too. Yep. But figuring out what's comfortable, right. You know, I've got different friends that, you know, they want to go to bed eight, nine, 10 o'clock at night, get a good night's sleep, get up, work out, and then go to, go to, you know, their job.

[00:17:07] And then I've got other friends that, you know, they don't go to bed and they still get up and go to their job. So, you know, find, find your people, right. Find your people at work, find your people outside of work, and then, you know, have real conversations with these, these people to decide, you know, Hey, what, what am I going to do? What am I doing for myself? What are they doing for themselves? And not just to take advice, but also to learn, like people are all wound differently. So what one does isn't necessarily what you need to do, but it's always nice to get a different perspective.

[00:17:35] Um, but you know, I, I was one that always tried to consciously live beneath my means. Um, because having, uh, an emergency fund is the first thing that these kids should really consider establishing. Um, if you're going to get free money at your job in the way of a 401k, you know, take it. Anybody's trying to give you money, you just figure out how to take it.

[00:17:58] So, um, if they're going to give you a free match from your 401k, then figure out how to put at least in to that 401k. So you get the match. Yep. Yep. Um, but these, there's some basics that, you know, rank pretty high, um, as you are getting acclimated to a new role. And there's only three things that you can do when you think about working for an extended period of time, saving money, living your life. And it is save, save more, spend less and work longer.

[00:18:26] So if those are your three choices, you know, I always like to earn more because then there's really no ceiling there. You do have a, you do have a floor on spending less because you're, you're forced to spend a certain amount. Yeah. Um, and you know, working when you want to, not cause you have to, AKA working longer. Um, it's much better to have that choice as opposed to being forced into working longer.

[00:18:49] So, and it's, it's not, you're, you're not backing up off the off ramp at that point when you're facing, like, I'm going to have to work more than I wanted to. Right. Um, you're not undoing that. There's no, you know, even, even though the, the, you'd like to think this, the lottery ticket is probably not the one you're going to depend on. Um, so, so, um, and honestly the people that you may think it's just like with job search, the people that you think are going to help you the most are probably the people who won't be able to help you the most.

[00:19:19] Um, and it's the people that you surround yourself with, as you said, uh, that will be able to help you the most and realizing your work. Yeah. You're not alone. You're, you're in this with other people who are doing the exact same thing. And frankly, if you can have that conversation and get comfortable with those folks, you're all grow through it. Um, it's, it's interesting you say that. Cause I look back now and I mean, even the kids I played little league with, or, you know, the ones I had my first job with at the bar or whatever, people are so willing to help. Yep. You know, what can I, what can I do for you? What can I help you do? What do you need?

[00:19:50] Um, so build that network out, whether it's, you know, the college network, the little league network, the first job network, like build it out, be nice to people and, you know, do whatever you can to help them. And maybe they're there to help you someday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It always, it always comes back around at some point. There's always a flip. Um, all right. So what about in terms of, um, choosing between, am I, am I taking this money and putting it into a savings account?

[00:20:18] Should I be pushing it into like, should I start investing? Like what, if there is money that you're saving and you've, you've done the max on the 401k. Yep. Like what's your guidance there? Yeah. So best practice is usually, you know, on the front end of the spectrum and on the back end of the spectrum when you just start out. So make sure you have three to six months in an emergency fund, make sure that you're contributing to that 401k at least up to the match. Right. Ideally, you want to continue to increase that.

[00:20:47] If you're, if you're also in a situation where you believe that you will make more over time than what you're making now, then consider contributing to your retirement account under the Roth category, if that's available. Hmm. Okay. Reason why is because when you put money into the Roth 401k, you pay taxes at the time that you contribute. It grows tax-free and comes out tax-free. And if you're in your early twenties, chances are you're going to make more as time goes by.

[00:21:14] Um, and you're going to pay more in taxes as time goes by. So get as much as you can into the Roth component of your retirement accounts as early as possible. Um, so that that money can compound for you for the next, you know, 20, 30, 40 years. And then never pay tax when that money comes back out. Um, and like I was saying, also put money into that emergency fund. And now you can see that there's a little bit of a gap here in the middle, right? So that gap in the middle is where that brokerage account would come in, where you start to invest your cash because you have more cash than you need.

[00:21:44] Um, and you start to look in that middle area, which is typically used for, you know, down payment for a house or, you know, your family or whatever it is, sending kids to college, those kinds of things that you're not thinking about in your early twenties. But, um, something to start to consider, like, I know I need money in that middle portion between today and retirement. That's where that money would come into play. Um, but first and foremost, three to six months of emergency reserve expenses, at least up to the match.

[00:22:12] If you get pretty comfortable and you have the ability to put more into that Roth account, then go as, as high as you can start to get to at least 15% over there and then reassess. Do I need to put money in this middle area? And do I need to do something different before you decide what to do beyond that? Um, that's typically what a good, you know, best practice is to consider when you're starting out. Yeah. Um, great advice. And I think a lot of times we just hear the match your 401k and just, just stay there.

[00:22:42] Um, and, and the other pieces are critical because, uh, you're not going to puncture the 401k for an emergency, um, or for buying a house hopefully. And so, um, you know, those are challenges that you don't want to run into later on. So, um, that's, that's quite helpful. Um, any other, any other thoughts in terms of what are you seeing from students that, uh, you'd like to say do this, not that.

[00:23:09] So I've had, I've had some interesting conversations with, um, my kids and their friends when it comes to their major, you know, Oh, we make, we make decisions at a very early age on the prospects of doing something that we have no idea what it's actually going to be. Um, you know, so, you know, I'll pick on a very difficult, um, a very difficult job that a lot of people take on.

[00:23:35] And, um, it's very, it's very hard, but, and you don't get paid a lot of money. So teaching, right. So there's a number of people that go into teaching because, you know, they want to get back. They like kids, this, that, and the other. And then by the time that they get into that role, it's nothing even like the student teaching that they did when they were in school. Yep. Then they get into the classroom and they, and they start to see what's actually required of them. And they go, Holy cow. Like I, I have a hundred plus thousand dollars of student loans not being compensated very well.

[00:24:05] It's in some ways can be viewed as a thankless job because it's a necessary, you know, necessary part of growing our youth. Yep. Um, it's an extremely important job and I don't think that teachers get nearly the credit that they really should get. And it's really hard. Yep. And, you know, what you thought you wanted to do, what you studied, what you were told, all these things don't match up with the actual career.

[00:24:28] Um, and I wish we had a better system to, you know, really give a look at what these future roles look like so that you understand what you're going to be doing at not just 22, but 32 and 42 and 52. Because we're asked to make a, such a big commitment in getting educated and then being in that role for an extended period of time.

[00:24:50] Um, so, you know, I would just encourage kids that if they are starting to look at what they want to do, think about what it is that you like and translate that into a minor. Right. Right. So for example, if you like math, where does math typically come up? Well, math typically comes up in finance. So maybe you get a finance minor. Right. So then you've got a basis of understanding, um, in another arena so that you could pivot if you needed to. Right.

[00:25:18] If you, if you like strategy, well, marketing and strategy go hand in hand. So maybe you start to think about, okay, well, if I'm going to do, you know, this teaching thing or whatever it is that your, their major is, maybe you get a minor in another category that you do have some love for just so that you can pivot if you need to. And I, that's some, that's a suggestion that I would give because so many people go all in and I can't tell you like, you know, so many friends I have, I'm like, Oh, what was your major? And it's like, Oh, I did physical therapy. And it's like, Oh, you're in finance. Exactly. Yeah. Okay.

[00:25:49] Yeah. So how'd that happen? It's like, well, I didn't really want to wrap ankles of 90 year olds. Not to do anything wrong with that, but. Yeah. Um, but that's a, you know, that's a great point in terms of not necessarily having, uh, thought through. What do I want to do when I grow up? And I think we asked, you know, toddlers, what do you want it to be when you grow up? And they're like a firefighter. Right. And so now it turns into like, well, what do you want to do longer term when you get to college?

[00:26:17] And it seems like there's a window that is not very long where you're figuring out like, okay, what do I want to do when I, when I finished this thing? And I have no idea what the next four years really are going to look like. Um, it's kind of like picking a roommate in a lot of ways. You're not really sure what you're getting. And so, um, so you're not really positive. You might have an idea, but you're not positive. Um, but, um, but you know, going from there, there's a couple of things also. One would be, I love picking a minor to go get some experience.

[00:26:46] And I, I know there's high school students that are out here and their parents, you're probably listening to this going, yeah, I told him to get experience. You really have to kind of help them even more to get that experience, to do anything, to get the hell out of the house and go experience some type of work. Um, whether they're paid or not, just go experience it to figure out what you like. Um, and then it comes back to, uh, somebody that I interviewed on the, on the podcast had

[00:27:12] a great line, which was the most important thing they learned in working was the first boss that they ever had was a great boss. And the reason that that was the most important thing they learned was because they realized it didn't really matter what they were doing. If they had a great manager, they could figure the rest of it out. And so, you know, I obviously am not exactly an accountant anymore. Um, so, so that was not exactly my path of choice. Um, and I'm pretty sure that path was given to me because, uh, I would no longer be living

[00:27:41] in the house because I could find a job and therefore go be an accountant. Um, now here I am in coaching, but, um, you don't necessarily have to have everything lining up your first day of class freshman year. What you've got to have lining up is being open enough to experiences to figure out how you will line it up. I mean, Kevin, I'll tell you what the, the other thing that I think that we miss as team

[00:28:08] members is truly understanding what your superiors want. So you're just doing what you're told, right? But the reality of it is, is they would rather not even tell you what to do. They would rather you figure out, you know, okay, I'm in this role. My role is X, Y, Z. And the way that I provide value is by doing this thing. The best question that you can ask a superior is what can I do to help you? What can I take off your plate? Well, guess what?

[00:28:39] Nobody else is asking that question and you're learning skills, right? You're also becoming more valuable and you have the opportunity as you become more valuable and you learn more skills to be more marketable for that group that you're already with. Or if it's not working out there because you have a terrible manager, then you're, you're more marketable. You have more skills for the next employer. Yep. And, and I think that that's something that, that I don't know if that's, if it's always been that way.

[00:29:04] Um, or if maybe we're scared as individuals to put ourselves out there to ask like, Hey, you know, what else can I do to help you? Maybe there's a fear that, Oh, they don't think I'm busy or, you know, whatever. But I can tell you that the biggest value that someone can bring to an employer or specifically their superior manager, supervisor, whatever they are is taking things off their plate and you become more valuable as an employee teammate, which then is just going to help you move right up the ranks. And I don't think that that's really ever taught anywhere.

[00:29:34] Um, whether it's in school, whether it's amongst your peers, whether it's in, in positions that you actually get. Um, but the people that step up and ask for those responsibilities are the ones that soar. Yep. I think it's also a confidence component. I think they're, they're not confident in the fact that they should be asking to take something like that. Um, whereas the ones who, yeah, the ones who are, are ready to go and they're absolutely ready to go. Um, and, and I would remind those folks that are like, I don't want to ask the question because I'm not confident. They hired you.

[00:30:05] They obviously believe in you or they would not have hired you. Yep. So, um, so yeah, that's, that's a great point. All right. Well, and with Sam, with that too, right. So, you know, there's been, we've had different teammates over the years. And when I see that someone asks, cause they genuinely want to learn, they want to give, they want to, you know, provide more value. Um, and that's their intention. What ends up following is compensation.

[00:30:30] Um, but if you ask with the intent to be compensated more, it kind of takes, it takes the genuineness out of the risk. Yes. Um, because they're, you're trying to get something more so than you are trying to to give. Uh, and you know, over the years, you never know how that's going to go with a superior, right? You don't know if it's going to be like, yeah, I'll give you more because you're going to, you're going to do more. Or, you know, maybe they look at it and they go, yeah, no, I don't even want to give you more. Cause you're going to expect more.

[00:30:58] And, you know, think about it when in, in the realm of professional sports. So no one, I don't care who it is. No one shows up on day one and bats lead off. They just don't. Yep. You have to prove that you have earned that spot. You know, you don't have these people in major league baseball who are the captain Bryce Harper didn't show up on day one and get everything right. He had to work his way through middle school and high school and college. And, and all of a sudden people were like, oh, this kid's pretty good.

[00:31:28] Oh, he's a good teammate. Oh, he's this. He's that. Before you get the position to the position where those individuals are. And the same happens in every, you know, company and in our day to day, it's earned, not given. And if you, if you approach things with the efforting mindset I think that it all works out. It all works out in the end. Yep. It absolutely does. And then the genuineness of it, because the, you know, it's similar to we see this often

[00:31:55] with people networking and saying, well, tell me about what you do and how can I help you? And they know before they even answer the question, they're gauging why you're asking the question. And it's not because you care. It's because you want to know who they know that they can introduce you to. Like stay in the first question. Don't get to the second question. Don't set it up. So, so that is, that is important. All right. This has been fun. We're helping out some college students here. Give me one thing that you hope they take away from this. One thing that you hope that they'll help out our college friends.

[00:32:29] Being humble and curious, I think are, are two things that would really, would really serve them well. Um, you know, eliminating the ego when you go into a new environment and understand that, you know, no matter how popular you were in high school, it doesn't matter when you start your first job. Um, but still be eager, you know, be eager to learn, be eager to contribute. Um, and you know, those are the kinds of folks that, that will soar and will shine over time.

[00:32:56] Um, because they would have that, that giver's mindset first. Um, and everything follows and it may not, it may not happen on your timeline. And I still remember this from when I was younger too, you know, I'm like, I'm 20, 21, 22, 23. I'm like, why isn't this going fast enough? Like I should be, I should, I should own the company by now. Right. Yeah. It's mine. The reality of it is, is that, you know, our careers are, are much longer than they feel like they are in the beginning.

[00:33:23] Um, and too many times we try to, to cram things in a short period of time when we're still very green. Um, and don't, you know, don't really truly, um, appreciate the amount of time that it takes to learn a skill. Um, and it takes a lot longer than we think it takes, uh, from the first person. So just be humble and, and be curious. And I think it all works out. The, the upside of that is once you're older, then you realize how fast that actually was.

[00:33:52] Looking back, it feels a lot faster than the moment you're in it. Look at you. Looking up the slide looked a lot faster than going down. Um, so that is, that is funny. All right, Todd, thank you so much for joining us. Um, obviously we will have, uh, links up for people to get in touch with you, pick your brain, ask questions, all that good stuff over at blue rock. Um, I appreciate your time. We'll have you back on. We're going to talk about people starting companies as well. Cause I think that that's a spot where second careers will be a, will be a big thing going into next year for sure. Um, so thank you again, sir.

[00:34:22] Um, Kevin. Absolutely. If you enjoyed our show today, please go ahead and give us five stars. Um, share this with your, uh, with your college students, high school students. Um, they may or may not listen to it, but you'll feel better knowing that you sent it to them and, um, share it with your spouse because that'll help the two of you relate to the questions at the same level. Um, but please go ahead and share with each other, uh, subscribe and we'll see you next time. Thanks everybody.