Saddle Your Own Horse: Leading with Conviction Instead of Fear

[00:00:01] You're listening to the HR Mixtape, a podcast for leaders who want to understand people, strengthen culture, and navigate change with clarity. Today's conversation starts now. Joining me today is Zach Arend, a two-time saddle bronc riding champion who went from the rodeo arena to VP of a $300 million company and now coaches leaders through his firm Create Purpose.

[00:00:29] He teaches executives to saddle their own horse and today he explains why so many leaders run on fear instead of conviction and what it takes to break that pattern. Zach, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast with me today. Thanks for having me, Shari.

[00:00:56] So before we get into leadership, I really want our listeners to meet you. So take us from the SaddleBronk arena to a vice president title at a logistics company. What did that path look like? Zach Arend, Yeah, well, gosh, I was eight years old when I went to my first rodeo. And I saw this little girl on her pigtails. We were, it was a Little Britches rodeo. So it was a youth rodeo. So these were kids my age.

[00:01:23] And I'm in the grandstands and I just remember seeing this little girl and her pigtails down there in that arena. And I looked over at my mom, my dad, I'm like, I want to do that. And they weren't surprised because, you know, from five years old, I wanted to be a cowboy. And my first horse, mom bought me my first horse when I was five. It was a Shetland pony named Princess. And I rode that horse all over town, even though we grew up in the grocery business. Mom and dad had a small town grocery store. So I wasn't wearing chaps. I was wearing an adult sized blue apron, you know, that it hung down to my ankles because I was five.

[00:01:53] But, um, but it started at that Little Britches rodeo and I started competing in the rodeo. And one day I was at a rodeo and I got introduced by a man by the name of Bruce Sturdy. He became my rodeo coach. And mom sent me up to his ranch for a weekend. And the first thing he asked me to do is to saddle my own horse. And that's not an easy feat for somebody who's not saddled a horse before. Just for our listeners.

[00:02:23] No. So I'm 11 and he says, asked me, well, boy, go saddle your horse, meet me in the arena. And then he walked away. And I'm just standing there like, well, what am I going to do? Like, there's something I haven't said out loud to anybody. And Bruce Sturdy doesn't know my dirty little secret, which is I've never saddled a horse before. You know, what kind of cowboy lets his mom saddle his horse. So no better time to start than now. And so I go and I get my horse, Joe. And long story short, I saddled my horse.

[00:02:52] It wasn't pretty, but I figured it out. And when I rode into the arena and, you know, Bruce Sturdy's waiting for me and, but something's different. I'm different. You know, I'm, I'm riding tall in the saddle. And for the first time I felt like I belonged in that arena, you know, all because Bruce Sturdy walked away. And that's really where the story of my rodeo kind of career, like that feeling turned into a fact. I ended up riding bronc, was a two time state champion saddle bronc rider in the rodeo.

[00:03:21] So all because Bruce Sturdy, the way he showed up for me. And I think it's informed a lot of my leadership philosophy and how I work with leaders is this saddle your own horse philosophy, where maybe our job is to be more like Bruce Sturdy and not like the little kid wrestling a saddle. It's more about how we're showing up to bring out the best of people, just like Bruce Sturdy did for me. If we just ended the podcast here, I think people would walk away with good feels. We have so much more to dive into.

[00:03:49] You know, I love that story because I think it really plays into your mentality around leadership, that they don't need more kind of like how to information. And granted, that's needed. I'm not saying that we don't need to have manager development, obviously, but they need that courage to act on what they already know. They need to kind of show up in a different way.

[00:04:12] How did you make that transition from that that example you gave, you know, in the rodeo into how now you're coaching leaders to take that step? Yeah. Well, I think I had to learn it the hard way because what I just shared with everybody, that story, I had lost track of that lesson. You know, by the time I was 34, I'm a vice president of sales for a $300 million logistics company. You know, I've been there for nine years. I started there right out of college.

[00:04:39] And I get invited into a meeting. My CEO asked, hey, you got a second. And I walk in there and he demotes me. I get demoted. And the next day I meet my new boss, our new vice president of sales, Michael. And this guy, I mean, he's twice my age, twice my experience. He reminded me of Jon Hamm from Mad Men. Like this guy was sharp. And I felt the CEO's hand on my shoulder and he introduced me to Michael. He said, Michael, this is Zach. He's a good soldier. He'll get you up to speed.

[00:05:09] And I'm like, is that a compliment? You know, I don't, I don't know how to take that. And I'm sitting down with Michael and he's asking me about the team. And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. I got 20 people reporting to me and I'm going on and on. I can't even remember all their names. And, and he just starts, Michael turns away from me. And he kind of chuckles. He's like, Zach, I don't, it's been four years, man. I don't know how you've been carrying all of this for so long. And he said, it's true. You've been a good soldier, but that's not leadership. And look in the moment I, you know, I wanted to blame the company, the CEO.

[00:05:39] Michael, like how, like I've read hundreds of leadership books. I know. Have I been doing leadership all wrong? You know, but he was, he was right. He helped me see something in myself that I just couldn't see. And that's what really brought me back to that story of Bruce Sturdy. I'm like, oh, leadership is more like being like Bruce, not, not being the, you know, we, there's this book out there in the world called extreme ownership, you know? And, you know, I was thinking about, what's his name? I was listening to one of the episodes on your podcast.

[00:06:06] It was a great episode. Marty Dubin. Okay. He was talking about like, when you have a strength, something that serves you, but you overuse it, you know, you put the word too, too, too much ownership. There's a dark side to that. And what I was doing as a leader was I was in many ways taking away the, the, the ownership away from my people where they weren't able to feel the weight of their own responsibility.

[00:06:31] And that's kind of turned into a philosophy called, I call empowered leadership where it's, I believe it's our job to keep people in a position in power and ownership. That's what the best leaders do. It's an art and a science for sure. There's nuances, right? We have to make sure people have the, the, the skill sets and all of that. But what I often find is if we would just start with seeing people as powerful, we would get, be much more effective in our leadership.

[00:06:56] If we treat people as already powerful instead of people who need our help all the time, you know, because we kind of fall into that trap. Cause I think we've, for me personally, I got a lot of, I felt found my self-worth in being able to help others, even though maybe they weren't asking for it, you know, you know? Yeah. Well, you know, and it's, it comes, it comes from a good place, right? It does. It comes from a good place.

[00:07:21] But, you know, the reality is when I think about all the work that our talent acquisition partners are doing to hire the great talent that we need in our organization, and then we bring them in and we don't let them thrive or take ownership of their space. And it's like, we've kind of defeated the purpose of hiring them for their skillset because we're not letting them show their skills that way.

[00:07:45] You know, you, you mentioned this term good soldier. I'd like for maybe you to talk a little bit more about what that good soldier dilemma is. And how do you identify that maybe you're being one of those good soldiers? Yeah. Well, kind of putting it into the arena and the horse world, you know, cause I'm in the process of writing this book, writing a book. And I really started to think about there's the horse and then there's, there's different types of riders.

[00:08:14] You know, the horse is, is our primal survival instincts. It's been with us through the beginning, you know, and it keeps us safe. It keeps us alive. It keeps us thriving, you know, but the rider makes all the difference. And this good soldier dilemma underneath it all, there's really these two types of riders. There's the fearful rider and there is the rogue cowboy, you know, the fearful rider, you know, the horse gets scared.

[00:08:41] The fearful rider grips the reins tighter, they freeze up and they just kind of, they get indecisive and they, they don't act. And they kind of just stay in that status quo, even though it's not working for them. And they're, they're able to tolerate so much. And, but then the rogue cowboy, you know, they're the opposite. They don't listen to the horse. They're going to be like, yeah, darn horse. And they'll just jerk the horse around, which is, they, they will overwhelm themselves with their own discipline and grit and willpower. And then that kind of starts to spread out to the people that are trying to lead.

[00:09:10] And what I found is the best style of leadership is being the true horseman, you know, learning to, learning that you're not the horse, you're the rider of the horse. And so we have to choose how we're showing up and how we show up under fear and all of this. It's not a reaction to our circumstances. It needs to be, it's always an act of creation. There's always an intention behind what's my rodeo coach called it eyes on the bronc. Like, what, what's the outcome I want to see here? And am I focused on it?

[00:09:39] Or am I focused on the ground and the problems and the obstacles and, and reacting to that, trying to solve all the problems around me and losing sight of what I'm actually here to accomplish. What I actually want for this relationship or, or this client interaction or for this meeting to go well. What does success look like? We, we take our eyes off the bronc. And so the true horseman knows that I am here to guide myself and the team towards better outcomes. Yeah. I love all of the analogies.

[00:10:07] And for people who have ridden horses, I think it, it really resonates. I was thinking back to the, the first time I ever rode a horse. It was on a Western saddle and, you know, I was rigid and stiff and, you know, bouncing instead of like moving with the horse as it moved. And, you know, you learn those things as you, as you work with your environments, right? You learn how to move your body in movement with the horse. So you're not bouncing up and down in the saddle. So you're not, you know, holding on to those reins so tight.

[00:10:35] But a lot of it is taking that first step to get over the fear. And, and there's a lot of fear in every role, you know, especially in leadership though, you know, especially in middle management. I think about that group in particular is they have to advocate both directions all the time. And, and sometimes that's really hard to stand up for your team in the way that you think is, is best for them.

[00:11:00] However, you know, the concept that you've learned helped people take that step to, you know, really advocate for what they need for their teams in a way that can show the organization that it's going to be a benefit. And that just, you know, you're complaining about head count or, you know, some of the kind of the tropes that we fall into. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's so understandable that we do because there's so much outside of our control and things don't always go the way we know they could go or should go. And it can be frustrating.

[00:11:27] The first thing is that eyes on the Bronx principle, because if number one, most biggest priority is what do I want for myself, for my team, for this company, for, for my leadership and executive team? What do I want for all of us? What would I love to see here? And getting more connected with the outcome you would actually want to see. So that's eyes on the Bronx. But then the second thing that I, again, I learned this in the rodeo arena.

[00:11:54] I'm riding saddle Bronx and my coach, Bruce Sturdy, I just keep hitting the ground. And he walks over. He's like, you know why you're hitting the ground? I'm like, no. Wish I knew. He's like, you're pulling on the rein. You know, you're just pulling. And that's a 1,200 pound horse. You can't fight that resistance. You got to learn to go with it. And he said, you got to, you got to give that horse the rein. You got to lift on the rein, not pull. And I turned this practice. I call it the lift practice.

[00:12:17] And this is specific for these leaders who find themselves in that crucible of trying to do the right thing while maybe not everybody is bought in or sees it the same way they do. The first step is listen without the reins. So this is a four-part acronym, LIFT. Listen, identify, focus, and transform. First one is listen without the reins.

[00:12:39] We have to become aware of the stories that we're telling ourselves about the situation because we are, me included, we are full of judgments, assumptions, interpretations, stories that really start to color what's happening. You know, if you're wearing red-colored glasses, the world's going to look red or, you know. And so listening without the reins is dropping the story, separating what's happening from the meaning that you're giving it. So what is? What actually is occurring? And then the second step is identify the pain.

[00:13:09] What's not working for me? What's not working for us? What's not working for maybe my executive team? What's not working here? What's not quite right? Notice this isn't judgmental statements. It's just what's not what I want. But we don't stay there because I've just found that if we focus on the stuff we don't want or what's not working, we just get more of it. We now have to focus on the possibility. Get back to the bronc. What do I want to see here?

[00:13:37] What would be an amazing outcome here for all of us? What would that look like? How would I know that it's occurred, you know, making it real and tangible? It's not I wish I want to be a better leader. That's not tangible enough. What would you be doing if you were a better leader? What would be different about your one-on-ones or when you're with your team? You know, what would that look like? How would you know? That's focus on possibility. And then last step is transform it into action. That fear only gets conquered if it's really ever conquered is through action.

[00:14:07] You have to take, but you don't have to know how. You don't even have to know what you're doing. You just have to take a next step. And what I've found is that's actually what leadership feels like. It's like, you have no idea what you're doing. I've been in rooms with like a billion, it was a billion dollar company. They're very successful. And the CEO, he, an expletive came out of his mouth. But he's like, everybody thinks we know what the weird we're doing, but we do not know what the we're doing.

[00:14:33] And it was so funny because I found like that is actually all of us. Like, I think deep down, we all don't know what we're doing. So that imposter syndrome or whatever, I've kind of thought of that as, yeah, that's just normal. That, in fact, that's what growth feels like. You're stepping outside of everything that's familiar, learning something new, stepping into a new, yeah, you're going to feel the, you're going to feel all the feels, you know? Well, you don't think about it like there's always a first for every time.

[00:15:01] There's a first time somebody is a CEO, like they've never done that job before. You can be as prepared as you want to be a manager. But the first time stepping into that role, the first time you have to have a hard conversation. You know, I think about my HR friends who are listening and it's like that first time you have to terminate someone, it doesn't matter if they, if they have created the case for themselves performance wise that, you know, you have to let them go. It is gut wrenching for an HR person.

[00:15:30] You know, the first time you have to handle a potential FMLA leave with somebody who's going through something really terrible and hard. Like those are really scary moments for us where we have to step up and we have to show. And that's just in, you know, the small limited space of being in HR. Like managers have to do that kind of all day long. If, if you've gone through this process, this lift mentality and kind of work and work, worked

[00:15:58] through those things and you still can't accomplish what you need to accomplish or what you want to accomplish. When is it time to say, I think I need a different horse. I need a different bronco to get on because this environment isn't working for me in the way that I want to lead. There's two directions I could, I, two things are coming to mind when you ask that. Cause I, I also, I often hear leaders say, well, what if I'm, I'm showing up and treating

[00:16:25] that individual is powerful, but they, they just, they don't, they don't, they don't do it. They don't fall through. They're not performing, you know, and how do I, what do I do if I've kind of at my, the end of the rope. But what I heard you saying was more of a question of like, if I find myself in an organization that's not the right, is that the question that you're asking? Yeah. What if you've gone through this and you've, you know, you've read all the books, but then you're like, Hey, you know what? I'm going to take Zach's approach.

[00:16:51] I'm going to use Lyft and I'm still not making the impact that I want to. Maybe my team like below me is doing great thriving, but we're still not making that impact. Yeah. Well, I would, first thing I would invite you to go back to Eyes on the Bronco and Lyft. I keep leaning into that because I think we, we, we all have like this negativity bias and we're going to tend to always think the green grass is greener on the other side.

[00:17:19] And my story though, is I, I got demoted and this is, this is a really real question for me because I got demoted. I got pushed back into a sales role. Um, and I had an executive coach at the time and right around the time I received the news, I had a session scheduled on the books. So I show up and I'm still kind of trembling. Like, I'm like, I just got demoted. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, I don't have a team to lead anymore. Like, I got to go somewhere else, you know?

[00:17:48] And that's that feeling of like, this isn't what I want. I got to go somewhere else. And he just looked at me and he kind of smiled and he's like, where are you running, Zach? Are you running away from something or are you running towards something? And that question, you know, in immediate, like, I'm like, I don't, I don't know, Jeff. Like what? You're the coach. You tell me. And he said, he pulled out his journal and it had my name on it.

[00:18:13] And the very first page, he said, do you remember what you told me four years ago when we first started working together? And I'm like, no. He's like, you told me that you were afraid of not being good enough. You were afraid of losing your spot at the table. Well, it's been four years, you know, and you just keep trying to prove yourself. You know, wearing your Brooks Brothers suit and your fancy office. He's like, Zach, who are you without all that stuff, without the title? Who, is that really who you are? Who are you? Who are you, Zach?

[00:18:40] And I just, that question just cut me like a knife. And I just felt this pressure burst and I blurted out, Jeff, I want to be a leadership coach. But the moment I said that out loud, I was like, no, that's insane. Like what I actually want. And he just cut me off. He's like, Zach, that's not insane. Like, if that's what you want to do, why aren't you doing it? You know, why? Like, what's your next step? And then he told me about this coaching program. He's like, I think you should do it, you know. And then I had to go through several hoops.

[00:19:10] Like I go tell my wife, like, hey, babe, I know we're trying to buy a house, but there's this leadership program. And she's like, go do it. I want you to do it. I'm like, really? And so I did it, you know, and I, it didn't get easier. You know, now I'm waking up early and building this thing on the side. And along the way, though, I was just kind of doing my leadership coaching thing while hitting my quota at the company. And along came a company that like, hey, we need a leadership coach. We see what you're doing.

[00:19:38] And next thing I know, I'm co-creating this opportunity. Like I told him, I was like, I'm not looking for a job. I'm building a coaching business. He's like, that's cool. You can keep doing that. And I'm like, really? You know, and so when he offered me that type of job, I'm like, why? Let's take that, you know? And so my answer to that question is, are you running away from something or running toward? Because it still comes back to eyes on the brawn. Because it's so easy to run away from, to blame somebody, get a little upset and be like, I'm going somewhere else.

[00:20:10] But what I've often found is when you start running toward something, you often find that that thing is already right there in front of you. But you've been confusing the heck out of people around you because you're not running toward, you're running away. And you start to show people who you truly are when you show up in the world, running towards something, knowing who you are and what you want and the difference. And it's not a selfish thing because usually if we get what we want, a lot of people benefit because that's just the hearts of who we are. I mean, we care about people.

[00:20:39] So this isn't a selfish thing. I think our companies need more of us showing up that way. And I think, I don't think, I don't think that story is about leaving a company. I think it's actually about being authentic, being values driven and making a difference. Well, and I appreciate you sharing that because I think sometimes, you know, I've fallen into both sides of this argument. The argument that's like, well, why would I take advice from a marriage counselor who's been divorced? Right?

[00:21:09] There's like that bucket, right? And then there's the other bucket that's like, yeah, but we learn from failure. We learn from not doing the thing to excellence or not doing the way thing that we want to do it that way. And we often learn more from those moments. So when you're going into these rooms and you're talking about leadership coaching and somebody is like, yeah, hey, well, you got demoted. How do you weave that into your story? Because I think that's valuable.

[00:21:36] I think that sets the stage in a much different way than I've climbed the corporate ladder and I've been successful at every level. And here's the things that I've done. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, yeah, it wasn't pretty. Like I was a human being getting demoted and I wanted to blame everybody, you know? And, and yeah, I, I forgot about, you know, this idea of saddling your own horse, this personal responsibility thing. That's all I'd ever done.

[00:22:04] I took ownership for all my results and I was taking the ownership of everybody else too. And, and when Michael says, Zach, you've been a good soldier, it's not leadership. It wasn't like immediately, I know what you mean. It was more of a years of wrestling with what is leadership then. And I actually studied servant leadership. I'm like, wow, do we not have that all wrong? Like if you really look at the true definition of servant leadership, it's actually about teaching people to saddle their own horse.

[00:22:33] And it's not about just surface level taking care of people. Now that's a part of like where you got to love your people, you got to care for them. But I always ask people, are you caring deep enough? Are you allowing them to go through their own discomfort, their own struggle so that they can learn the lessons and truly grow? Cause that's where growth happens. And if we're constantly trying to protect people and keep stress and discomfort away from them, maybe we're hurting them more than helping them. I just, I kind of, I think so.

[00:23:01] Not always, but there's, it's worth looking at. Yeah. I have said this before on the podcast, not that you should orchestrate this, but everybody should get fired once. I like you just learn something from that experience and you go through that entire grieving process, right? The anger and the, you know, all, all the things, but there's, there's something you walk away with differently having gone through that experience.

[00:23:28] You know, I think back to all the mistakes that I've made in my career and the lessons that I've learned. And, and even now I, you continue to grow. I have a super supportive boss and she'll say to me, is that, is that a fight that you want to have? Like, I got your back. Like I got your back, but really think about it. Is that something you want to pursue or tackle or change or whatever? And it goes back to like, what do you value? How do you make the impact you want to make? And, you know, am I, am I looking at it from the right perspective?

[00:23:57] You know, as we wrap up our conversation, I'd love for you to share with somebody who's listening today and maybe they're walking away and they're like, man, you know what? I am in that good soldier position. What's one thing that, that you would advise them to do so they can really start to saddle their own horse and make an impact the way they want to? This sounds simple and it's probably the hardest thing to do, but it's get a journal and find

[00:24:25] some time just to sit and start answering some of these questions that we raised in the call, the session today. Like, what do you truly want? What's the outcome? What would, what would light you up? It's how would you love to contribute and, and actually get really clear. And I just, I just think that takes us slowing down, which that's where we're not good in this world we live in. It's 24 seven. That's what I've found. Most of the leaders I've been working with lately. That's what they need to do.

[00:24:51] Like take a Friday afternoon and get offsite, go to a coffee shop with nothing but a journal and just start journaling and kind of reflecting and thinking, writing. I like to write because if you stay in your head, you just, I don't know about you, but I just start to spiral. But on paper, I can start to get a little distance from it and I can think clearer. So that's where I would start, but start really leaning into what, what are you running toward? What, because only you can answer that.

[00:25:18] You know, that's, that's your, that's your responsibility. That's, that's your version of saddling your own horse is starting to choose the stories and, and the direction that you want to go. So yeah. And not waiting, not waiting for somebody to tap you on the shoulder. Cause I think for so long, I just was always waiting for that, that opportunity. And I realized like, oh, I will have to be the one to create that, you know? And, and it started with me starting to wrestle with those questions. Yeah. So good.

[00:25:47] I, you know, my husband is a prolific journaler, so there is definitely something to be said about getting that, just that distance from your, your brain to the paper. You can see things more clearly. And I would say if you're listening and you're like, Hey, I don't have time to journal. Open your phone and look at your screen time. See if you can cut that down by an hour this week and invest that into journaling. I always remind people of that when we say we don't have enough time is like, we do, we just need to prioritize it differently. So Zach, this was a great discussion.

[00:26:16] I love your connection to, you know, being in the arena to bringing that to leadership and, and really forcing us to think about how do we saddle our own horse. So thank you for your time. Thank you, Shari. Thanks for tuning in to the HR Mixtape. Like, share, review, and subscribe to support the show and help more people discover these conversations until next time.

[00:26:46] Keep the conversation going.