How Employer-Sponsored Immigration Fits Into Broader Workforce Planning, with John Dorer

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[00:00:35] John Doerr, welcome to the conversation today. I'm so happy to be here, John. Appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be with you. Where are you joining us from? New York. New York City. Wonderful. We're starting to get a little bit chilly. So, yeah. Yeah, same here. Same here. I'm in the Salt Lake City area. Fall weather is upon us. It's beautiful. And it's a pleasure to sit down with you. We've had to reschedule this. You've been so patient with me.

[00:00:58] And battling technical issues and travel schedules and all of that. Now we finally get a chance to sit down. And I'm thrilled to have the chance to be able to chat with you about employer-sponsored immigration and workforce planning. And really an important topic and an increasingly complex topic. I think it's always been complex. But I think given the current political and social landscape in the U.S. right now, it's extra complex and a sticky issue.

[00:01:28] And so, you know, we'll try to explore and unpack this a little bit together today. I just wanted to do a really quick and brief introduction for John and give him a chance to share a little bit about himself with everybody. John Doerr is CEO at EB3 Work, Staffing Solutions for Employers with Labor Shortages.

[00:01:49] And as the CEO at EB3 Work, he leads a team of immigration attorneys and recruiters who specialize in providing effective solutions for employer-sponsored green card programs and entry-level labor shortage. With over 23 years of experience, they have extensive knowledge and expertise in the field of global mobility and the EB3 Visa program.

[00:02:14] The mission of EB3 Work is to partner with employers to help them eliminate their chronic entry-level labor shortages. I'll pause there. John, anything you want to highlight about your own background before we dive on in? No, that's fantastic, John. Appreciate it. Okay. Well, why don't you frame up for us then just the general kind of challenge here? You deal with it every day as you're helping employers.

[00:02:38] But what do you see as kind of the major issue here that employers tend to be facing? Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for doing what you do. You know, I think that, you know, human capital and navigating human capital if you're in HR or if you're in C-suite is becoming increasingly complex and important.

[00:03:03] And very often can be either a competitive advantage or a disadvantage. And so, you know, we primarily work with employers who have entry-level worker labor shortages.

[00:03:18] So whether it is a, you know, in the hospitality space, whether it's a, you know, multi-unit franchisee, maybe, you know, a client will have 15 or 20 McDonald's locations and 400 or 500 employees. And they are chronically understaffed at their entry level, I think crew member level.

[00:03:40] Same thing with construction companies, with construction laborers, you know, home care, janitorial, any industry with entry level. And the two big challenges and pain points are not finding enough workers in the local area and the high turnover. Right.

[00:04:03] So those are two things that we work hard to address through showing our clients how to hire international talent to fill those positions where they've tried to fill them with U.S. workers and there simply aren't enough available. You know, we're... Yeah. To put a fine point on this, you know, there's lots of rhetoric, like we're in a politically polarized kind of world right now, right?

[00:04:29] So socially, politically, there's lots of angst around immigration and lots of rhetoric, okay? And I don't want to make this like a big political thing. I don't think it should be. I don't think it needs to be. I think what you're saying is absolutely true. There's like this push-pull mechanism in the labor economy. And the reality is, no matter how much rhetoric there is going on politically, the reality is there are labor shortages.

[00:04:58] There are labor shortages, especially in types of jobs that the average American just does not want to fill, right? And so it's not a matter of, you know, immigrants coming to steal jobs away from Americans. These are jobs that companies cannot fill that people don't want, right? These are often entry-level positions. These are the, you know, like you said, these are construction.

[00:05:24] These are service industry, hospitality, you know. These are jobs that are good jobs, but these are jobs that, frankly, you know, you and I and our neighbors, you know, probably aren't wanting to go fill. And so, but we need them. Like, we need these jobs. We want people to be doing them, right? And organizations need to fill them.

[00:05:51] And so the question becomes, how do we do that? How do we fill those labor shortages? And we have a couple choices. We either, like, figure out advanced robotics to have, like, robots do it all, or we bring people in to do them, right? And we're not there with advanced robotics, so that means we have an immigration system. And we have a process to bring people in legally so they can have visas and they can do these jobs, right? Absolutely.

[00:06:20] Set aside all the rhetoric, all of the, you know, extra stuff, you know, that people talk about. And there is, like, an actual system that works and people can do these jobs and organizations need them and we want them, right? Absolutely. And, you know, look, this is not a bad problem to have as a society.

[00:06:43] You know, you want your kids to be educated and to have a fulfilling career and high-paying job, right? And so that's where we are. And so, but because of that, we don't have people to fill the entry-level first-time jobs. And, you know, countries around the world use immigration to do that.

[00:07:12] And, yeah, and in terms of, you know, I refuse to be dragged into a political debate because this is, you know, not political to me or to the employers that we work with. This is a problem-solving issue. And, you know, the employers that we work with expect their elected representatives to help solve the problems. And they don't really care what side of the aisle they're on. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:07:41] So let's set aside any polarized rhetoric and just, like, work the issue, right? Work the problem. And the reality is we just have workforce planning needs. And we have labor capital needs. And we need people. And that's what you do. And it's a great need. And it's a great opportunity for organizations and for these workers. So that's wonderful. So talk us through how it works as you work with organizations. You partner with them to identify the needs. What comes next? Yeah.

[00:08:11] Well, let me set the stage a little bit more and why we have this problem. And one of the big reasons is demographics. We have an aging workforce, which I'm sure you've, you know, are aware of and spoken on before. And we simply have more people leaving the workforce than we have entering the workforce.

[00:08:32] And so it's, you know, our employers are finding it more and more difficult each year to have people apply to their help wanted ads. That's a problem. And then also just kind of, as I alluded to before, you know, a lot of the hospitality jobs in the QSR space used to be filled at least seasonally by high school kids. And we're just seeing a lot of people.

[00:09:01] And we're just seeing a general trend away from, you know, a 15 or 16 year old wanting to work at McDonald's, for example. You know, there's a general negative connotation on trade schools in our country, which is not the case in European countries.

[00:09:20] And so, you know, you hear that talk a lot about how the narrative over kind of blue collar work needs to shift because it's a very viable career path. Yeah. And it's just shifted. It's kind of shifted both ways. I don't know if it's a post pandemic thing. So I have six children and my wife and I both come from large families and we both like had teenage jobs growing up.

[00:09:46] And so I always encouraged my kids to have teenage jobs and in my oldest three children all did like in and we live in Utah and in Utah, you know, with parent permission at the age of 14, you can start to work. And so my three older children at the age of 14 all went out and got jobs and they all worked, you know, ever since they were 14 and they've worked ever since. However, by the time my younger three children, actually, I still have one that's 13.

[00:10:12] So he's not old enough anyways, but like my two kind of middle children, by the time they hit 14, nobody would hire 14 year olds. Like it went it went from being like there were lots of companies, you know, often fast food, right, or whatever. But there were lots of places that would hire younger kids to do menial jobs, but like lots of options. And now nobody will. And and now they still will when you're 16, but not when you're 14.

[00:10:40] And so and maybe that's that's a subtle shift, but it's a shift nonetheless. And I wonder if that's something you've seen. Is that a trend? I don't know. Maybe it's a Utah thing. I don't know. Um, you know, I'm all for, um, I'm all for working as a teenager. You know, I, I, one of my first jobs, you know, this is back in the day when there were paper routes.

[00:11:04] So, uh, and then, and then I was a bagger at, uh, at the, at a supermarket, you know, and I still, yeah, I still think those are, were some of the best life experiences, um, that I could have had that, that, you know, that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. So, um, we'd love to see, we'd love to see more of that, you know, with us as a, as a society. Yeah. Anyways, just, just interesting and curious just about these subtle shifts that are happening in society.

[00:11:31] And like you said, clearly there are fewer and fewer, um, from the, from the labor side, like from the employee side, fewer people wanting those jobs. Right. Um, but perhaps there's fewer employers wanting young teenagers in those jobs, or, or maybe they just feel like younger teenagers are less equipped to do those jobs. Maybe that's a post pandemic thing. I don't know. Maybe I'll tell you what, what's, what's funny and what does not get talked about enough.

[00:11:58] And, and I don't mean to kind of, um, stay on the fast food industry so much, but you know, so many franchise, uh, franchisees, franchise owners, um, tell me they started working in, in a fast food restaurant at the age of 15 or 16.

[00:12:17] And they moved up and they, you know, went through the franchise program, got accepted and now they own, you know, 15, 20, 30 and, and, and are hugely successful. Um, so it, it's, uh, I think that, um, uh, that needs to be amplified, uh, in my view, but, um, but yeah, but, you know, getting back to, um, you know, to the problem of not finding enough local talents. Yeah.

[00:12:47] There are, there are a couple of immigration pathways that, that some people may or may not know about. There are, you know, immigration, employer sponsored immigration in general, um, is sponsorship based.

[00:13:00] And so there's, there's, there's an employer who petitions with the government, with USCIS, um, to get, um, a specific worker, either, um, you know, a temporary work visa or permanent residence, depending on if it's a temporary job or permanent full-time year-round job.

[00:13:19] And so, uh, for example, the H2B visa is very common in the hospitality space, uh, and construction, uh, and it's for kind of seasonal peak load, uh, temporary positions. And then the, the EB3 visa is for permanent full-time year-round positions. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:41] And so you, you work with an organization, you identify the needs, whether it's seasonal, whether it's more long-term, you identify the right pathway. Uh, what, what are the next steps?

[00:13:52] Um, the next steps are, you know, if you have an internal team that can do the recruiting and then either have inside counsel or retain outside counsel, an immigration attorney to, uh, to represent you and file the petition on your behalf. Uh, that's what happens, you know, with, with our model at EB3.work, we, um, provide that service for people that don't have those in-house teams.

[00:14:22] And so we have a kind of a, an HR side of our business and then an immigration attorney side of our business. And so we do the, um, kind of provide the full service for, um, for entities. And we, we kind of specifically work in the full-time year-round, um, EB3, um, space. Um, and I'll tell you, um, you know, illegal immigration gets so much press, you know, you know, we have to figure, we have to, uh, secure the border, et cetera.

[00:14:52] Um, interestingly, the legal immigration process, which has existed, you know, the current version has existed since 1990, um, really doesn't get, uh, doesn't get much press because it's not, you know, as flashy, uh, in terms of newsworthiness as, as, um, uh, as illegal immigration.

[00:15:12] Um, but some of the challenges with, with the current system and, and you hear calls for immigration reform and support for that is that the process, um, especially for the EB3, for the EB3 visa program for permanent employment takes too long. It's kind of an inefficient process that has been neglected by, uh, uh, policymakers.

[00:15:38] Uh, and so, you know, if, if an employer wants to sponsor somebody right now, it takes, you know, 48 plus months for that worker to be approved and then start working. So that's, that's kind of the big challenge in the, in the, you know, legal immigration space.

[00:15:56] Um, we're pretty active in DC in advocating for legislation and, and also creating legislation to, um, offer solutions to make that process more efficient for employers. Um, so that's something we're, um, kind of proud of. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting space, uh, you know, working in DC.

[00:16:19] Um, but, um, uh, you know, we feel like it's kind of necessary, necessary work to, that will have outsized, um, benefits, uh, for our economy. Yeah, I agree. I think there's, there's a lot of reform that's needed in the legal immigration space. Um, and certainly in, in all aspects of immigration, I think, you know, there's a lot that's broken and a lot of reform that's needed.

[00:16:47] Um, but in the legal immigration space, uh, yeah, I, I think, I think there's plenty to do there. Um, and, and in the meantime, we need lots of, of, of people like you out there to help, uh, help organizations navigate their labor needs. Uh, you know, we, as consumers, you know, just as citizens and consumers, we want the products and services, you know, that, that these organizations offer.

[00:17:11] And if, for anyone, let's just take hospitality, for example, anyone who's traveled to a resort or a hotel and, and you've experienced an understaffed, um, you know, circumstance, you know, that's not great. That's not pleasant. You paid a lot of money to go on vacation with your family or whatever. Um, it's not those people's fault, right? Like it's under, they're understaffed. Like they, maybe they're working their third overtime shift in a row.

[00:17:37] Like they're, they're, they're pulling weight of like, you know, multiple people instead of like, they're just their own job. Like it's, I feel bad for them on the one hand. On the other hand, I'm like, I'm paying a lot of money to take my family on vacation, you know, like, but it's not their fault. It's, it's, it's, and, and, and even the organization is probably trying to do the best they can. It's just, there's like legitimate labor shortages and it's just, it's just a really hard situation.

[00:18:02] And so like, I think for everyone's sake, you know, these are the types of things that we, we want to try to fix, um, so that everyone can have better experiences. Um, and yeah, I think it'll be better for everyone all the way around. Yeah. I'll tell you, and it doesn't end at just, you know, your experience of, you know, waiting, waiting in line to check in, um, realizing that, you know, the. The dining room is closed.

[00:18:28] If the, what doesn't get talked enough, um, that we're trying to kind of amplify is the inflationary impact. Sure. Because, you know, if you're the employer and you know, you've got, you're, you're going to pay more for maybe contract work. You're going to have people working overtime and you ask any employer costs get passed on to the consumer.

[00:18:51] And you multiply this by the tens of thousands of businesses that are experiencing in the U S and you have, you have a real, um, source of inflation. 100%. And I mean, it's simple labor supply demand, right? You don't have enough workers. Of course there are all the things you just said, plus just simply labor supply demand issues. And, um, you know, it, it just, you have a shortage in labor. It's going to cost more. Right. Um, yeah.

[00:19:20] So 100%, I think all the way around, um, John, this has been a really great eyeopening conversation. I think there's a lot for us to consider and, uh, you provide a really important, um, service and a really great resource. As we wrap up, I just wanted to give you a chance to share with the audience, how they can connect with you, find out more about what your, uh, team does. And, and, uh, give us the final word for it today. Yeah. Thank you so much. And again, uh, thank you so much for, for all you do for this community.

[00:19:46] You know, it's a great, great platform to, uh, to discuss, um, really meaningful HR and human capital, um, ideas and topics. Uh, you could easily reach me on, um, at eb3.work. Uh, I'm also on LinkedIn, um, under my name, John Doerr, J O H N D O R E R. And, uh, I'd love to, uh, love to speak. Wonderful. Thank you again. It's been a real pleasure.

[00:20:14] I encourage the audience to reach out, get connected, find out more about what John and his team can do for you. And as always, I hope everyone can stay healthy and safe, that you can find meaning and purpose at work each and every day. And I hope you all have a great week. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the podcast. We hope you stay healthy and safe and please join us again soon.