Everyone's Selling the Same AI: What We Heard at HR Tech 2026

[00:00:00] Put your thumb over the logo and tell me if you could tell what company is doing this. I don't think there is a such thing as an AI company, right? There is a company that utilizes AI to achieve another type of goal or to do something else within a process. AI is into self-preservation just like people are into self-preservation. AI wants to be useful and important and have a role in your organization.

[00:00:22] There was this promise that AI was going to make implementations less expensive, faster, less friction. We have not yet seen evidence of that. In fact, some of our implementations are more expensive than we've seen in years past and take longer.

[00:00:48] Welcome to The Meg and Amy Show. A couple weeks back, we attended HR Tech in Las Vegas and we had the privilege of interviewing some of our favorite people, including Bonnie Tinder, Lance Hahn, Steve Goldberg and Sarah White.

[00:01:08] And this episode is all about our chats with those folks. And I just did want to give a special call out to the Work Define team for setting up an absolutely amazing podcast studio at HR Tech. So thank you so much to William Tincup and to Ryan Leary. And to the HR Examiner for helping support having podcasting done live on the show.

[00:01:39] So it was our first experience of being live streamed, which was kind of fun. And also what a delight to see all of our friends, our industry friends, and to be able to check in with them and not only find out what they were learning at the conference, but also kind of how they are thinking about the idea of inventing the future. So we knew we didn't have a lot of time with each of them, but we were so grateful for the time they gave us. And we just had a heck of a good time, don't you think?

[00:02:08] And we got a lot of hugs, too. We got so many hugs. We got not enough photos, actually. If I were going to give us a little bit of feedback, we could really up our photography game. But neither one of us are good at a selfie. And, yeah, we forget to carry our phone around. Yeah, it is what it is. But I'm so excited that we're bringing this episode to our listeners who weren't maybe not at the conference or maybe just didn't get a chance to catch the live streams. Yeah, absolutely. And so here we go.

[00:02:37] We've got Bonnie, Lance, Steve, and Sarah. Let's roll. All right. So, Lance, this morning you wrote about the expo floor here at HR Tech and how it was even more overwhelming than usual and how it was a great example of the industry at home right now in terms of everybody saying the same thing. Yep.

[00:03:01] And no one necessarily solving any problems and just creating lots of confusion for practitioners and for buyers. And so I was wondering, is this different than normal? Are we at a peak level of desperation? Or, you know, what's happening here? I wish I knew for sure. But I've got some ideas, right? I've been coming here since 2009.

[00:03:32] And so I've seen everything. And I used to just make fun of this place because people would just recycle booths constantly because nothing changed, right? Like, we're performance management. Okay, cool. You're SAP. You just keep saying SAP, right? Like, you don't have to say anything else. Bring the same booth every year. Do that. Nobody – I will say credit to everybody. Nobody has the same booth anymore. That's good. But everybody's saying the same stuff.

[00:03:59] And so, like, my test on all this stuff, put your thumb over the logo and tell me if you could tell what company is doing this. Other than the features that they're talking about, right? Tell me whether you could tell what they're saying. Is it any different than what you've read in the past? So it's good from that perspective of, like, I'm seeing fresh stuff. It's just huge.

[00:04:23] And as someone who has been a buyer before, it's also overwhelming because buying HR software is not your job. Being a CHRO is or being an HR director, right? So, like, being a VP of HR is your real job. You don't want to figure out, like, who can actually do the things that are said on their booth. If you want to figure out, you know, you want to get a good fit for that, you don't want to be spending all your day here trying to figure this out.

[00:04:49] So hopefully, I think one of my challenges to, I think, CHROs and VPs of HR and folks that are shopping here is, like, how are you figuring this out? How are you discerning between that? Because I don't see a lot of ways you can do that without just having to have a conversation with every single person, which nobody has time. That's the problem with saying the same sort of things. No differentiation between a lot of the booths and a lot of the messages that I see out there, especially when it comes to how they're using AI, right?

[00:05:19] So we are curious. So you've obviously been to this conference a lot. What are you seeing? Tell us a little bit about what you're doing here and what you're learning here. As you know, I wear two hats that the more visible, invisible hats that I wear are analyst and advisor. But the other reason why I'm here is because I'm a social butterfly. So those are my three roles that I play here.

[00:05:48] Industry analyst, advisor and social butterfly. So what am I seeing? To me, a little frustrating to hear everybody saying the same things because as a former buyer for 15 years, that doesn't help a buyer when everybody's saying the same things. Particularly when phrases like native AI is used by almost everybody. Somebody has to, I think, come up with a maturity model for native AI.

[00:06:14] Then the phrase starts to have meaning and we can start to, buyers can start to evaluate who's more mature and tangible and real in terms of, you know, or else native AI is meaningless. But still, as you know, I'm into use cases. I try to boil it down to use cases that are real practical and tangible and have value.

[00:06:39] So native AI personally doesn't resonate with me unless it gets translated and manifested in a use case. Okay, so tell us about this year's conference. Like what's been interesting? What's been surprising to you? I think what's interesting, this is the largest conference that HR Tech has ever had. And it's about 25% larger as far as, you know, kind of attendance. Huh, I had no idea. Not just on the floor. It is a larger event. There's more people here.

[00:07:07] But I think for me, one of the things that I find fascinating is there's more investors here than ever before. And we're seeing a really big shift. And I think that there is sometimes a lot of, you know, negativity and like the market is slow and everything is down and all of these. When in reality, we're just going through a very natural cycle that all three of us have done, you know, over the years, multiple times where we're getting ready to go through another consolidation cycle. So new technology kind of come in and emerge.

[00:07:37] And, you know, there's very high interest still in all of the companies on the floor by the PEs, by the investors, by the angels. Like everything is, you know, conversations are happening at scale and at levels that I have just never seen at this show.

[00:07:53] And so one theory that I have is that maybe all of the vendors are positioning for the investors that are here rather than for the actual practitioners. What do you think about that? I don't think that's a terrible. That's not a terrible thesis. You look at the investment activity.

[00:08:15] If you follow George LaRock's stuff, I mean, he talks about just, you know, having AI in your solution category is just a boost. Like nobody's investing in things that aren't AI. So you want to fit in. The problem is that's a very short term strategy. What I would hope is coming back next year, which I guess I plan on doing, is hopefully we see some more differences between that. Because I think there's plenty of buyers no matter sort of what corner you're in, what your worldview is. Right.

[00:08:45] I mean, I think that's what we see a lot of the problems in. Like everybody wants to be everything to everyone. And nobody wants to be like, we're just for this type of company. You see that more with like frontline workforces like health care. Right. Retail, that's what it is. Yeah, industry. Right. You see their comfort level with that. I'd love to see that more from like a psychographic profile of like the type of organization or the type of buyer that you're really going for.

[00:09:12] I wonder, is it investors coming to look for new AI native companies? Or are they looking at existing companies that have leveraged AI well? Or does it have nothing to do with AI at all? Do you have any ideas? Yeah, I would say about half the conversations I have had over the last six months. Really, it's not about AI at all. It's about what companies are thinking about the business impact and how things are going with the business impact.

[00:09:42] Obviously, AI from my perspective is a mode of how we do the work. It is not, you know, I am a firm believer. I don't think there is a such thing as an AI company. Right. There is a company that utilizes AI to achieve another type of goal or to do something else within a process. And I think that we've gone from, you know, where two years ago it was like AI, AI, AI. And now it's like, okay, this is great. Of course, we know everybody on the floor has some level of AI. But now it's like, great.

[00:10:12] Who's actually solving a real problem versus creating a problem via a product to solve? Yes. What are you seeing about AI in your data? Like, is that anything interesting starting to emerge there? I think every single company, HR, you know, department will say, we use AI. But that's the equivalent of saying, you know, we use a computer, right? There's so many definitions.

[00:10:42] We have a cell phone. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And what I would say our data is showing is that this idea of agentic AI or autonomous, you know, work right now, agents that are performing actions that have completely eliminated, you know, humans in the loop. I have not seen evidence of that.

[00:11:07] The other thing I would say that we see from the data is there was this promise that AI was going to make implementations less expensive, you know, faster, less friction. We have not yet seen evidence of that. In fact, some of our implementations are more expensive than we've seen in years past and take longer.

[00:11:29] So, I think, you know, this idea of reducing the time to implement, the speed, the cost, we haven't yet seen that take longer. Well, maybe the hardest part of implementations is actually the people part, right? So, that would make sense. Certainly on the change management side. Yeah, exactly. So, what else has surprised you at the conference? So, it's interesting because I went to Workday Rising last week.

[00:11:56] I was telling you that, and I came to this conference, and it's a lot of the same. So, like, the HR folks that I've talked to, it's interesting. They're very inspired by a lot of the things that they're hearing from vendors and from their colleagues and peers. But when it gets down to it, they're still trying to solve, I think, some basic issues. When I was at Workday, it was lots of people like, hey, we're looking to turn on this module for recruiting, like, this year.

[00:12:25] Like, that's our big goal. I like that stage you're talking about, like, agentic HR and, like, oh, we're going to do, you know, we're going to have payroll agents and it's going to be amazing and you're not going to have to work anymore. It's just the perfect solution, right? It's the Ronco sort of set it and forget it. You know, just put it in the roaster. Let it spin. You have dinner, you know, by the time you get back from work. So, like, that's, I see a lot of that.

[00:12:51] So, I was surprised to see a lot of folks out here being very practical about what they want from their software solutions. I've heard from vendors, too. So, I've been in the briefing room a lot this week. Lots of people are coming with specific problems to fix, which is great. Like, and so, like, that's what you want. That's great. That makes sort of the sameness of your messaging and booth very, I think, very damaging for a lot of these folks because people come. They don't see themselves in your story.

[00:13:21] Yeah, they don't see. Absolutely not. Yeah. We just last week talked to, or week before, talked to Stacey Harris. And I know she's delivered her survey results here, but there was a lot of real good evidence that when people focused on specific problems and they put their energy of bringing technology to solve those problems, they're the ones that saw the results, unsurprisingly, right?

[00:13:46] So, I think we're at this interesting moment where the intersection of what the buyer needs, the more specific that can be and what the vendors have to offer matching that up. It's almost as if there were some sort of AI solution that could answer that with a more specific and tailored message as opposed to, you know, we're all things to all people. I know.

[00:14:16] Well, the funny thing is, I was talking to somebody while we were waiting to be interviewed and they just said, like, it's so weird. Like, you either have that very focused person or you also have, like, executive teams making purchases based off of vibes. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Have some AI. Yeah. Like, ooh, that sounds nice. I'd like that. Well, we've always had vibes in HR tech, right? Absolutely, right? And that's why you have so many, I think, so many platforms out there that are even underutilized to this day.

[00:14:44] Like, so, like, why are we adding AI to something that you're not getting 20% of the value from today? Like, what are you doing? Right. I've got lots of questions about that. I don't know the answer either because, you know, it's one of the really challenging things about this particular place that it's hard to discern, like, how much of it is just, like, winded, like, feel like you're keeping up with the Joneses, right? You're not letting competitors slip by you and your competitiveness.

[00:15:11] It's still a tough talent market out there for a lot of the organizations that are out there buying. How do you tell the difference? Like, do you have any tips for folks that are evaluating, like, how to tell the difference? I mean, I think if you are, like, a practitioner, right, trying to look at technology and decide what to buy, you have to, one, if you hear something, it might be really cool, but you have to look at your own processes, right?

[00:15:39] Like, some of the best technology is not going to make sense for you and your organization, the way you hire, the way you manage talent, and that's okay. I think there's a little bit of, like, FOMO. I think that's a cringy word. I don't think that's allowed anymore, but, like, there is a little bit of FOMO that people feel like, well, everybody else is doing this, so I have to do this. Right.

[00:16:00] And I think what happened between 2021 and 2023 is a lot of people overbought technology that they didn't actually need, and so what feels like a reduction in usage of tools is actually more of a right-sizing to back where we were pre-COVID, and because it is, like, what actually makes sense for what we're doing? And I think there's two sides to that.

[00:16:24] I think a lot of times companies miss out on innovation and opportunity because it's not exactly what they had before, and they're not open to understanding, or they go to the other extreme where they buy a bunch of technology that isn't really necessary because they feel like they're supposed to do it, because an analyst said to do it, because some marketing said to do it, like somebody in a roundtable said to do it. And it really needs to be this middle ground of, like, let's understand what somebody is and how does that make sense for me?

[00:16:52] And it's okay to be very selfish in technology-wise about what that makes sense for my team, my organization, my role, and how well I become a better partner to the business by providing this product. So, Steve, you know that I have been a fan forever, but specifically the topic that we share a deep passion for. Orgigility. Orgigility. Exactly, Orgigility. That's my middle name. Yes.

[00:17:18] And Amy and I were recently at a conference that was the People Analytics Conference, and it was super interesting to me to see that people were starting to not just talk about orgigility, but actually, to your point about use case, having a picture in their mind of what that might mean and why that is important.

[00:17:42] And so, one of the things that have been added to this conversation is how work is changing, right? Work is evolving so much. And people are struggling to figure out where does an HR system begin and end in this way of managing work and managing the shape of the organization and managing how people show up for work.

[00:18:06] So, what I'm really curious in your, you know, since you've probably thought about orgigility more than anyone, are you seeing bright spots in your partnerships or in your clients that are really starting to be able to talk about evidence of being down this path of orgigility? Or are we still in the working on it? Well, I'd say we're at the midpoint in terms of maturity. That seems hopeful.

[00:18:36] Yes, with respect to applying and thinking about the intersection between HR tech solutions and elevating orgigility. And just in terms of a minute of context, for 30 years, research on change management, restructurings, M&A, any kind of really kind of game-changing moment, moment that matters for an organization. You know, for years, HR systems was about moments that matter for the employee.

[00:19:04] Now, I think, and that's important. To me, the ideal situation is when a technology can account for the moment that matters for the employee and the organization. And from the organizational context perspective, you know, again, it's if we think about or look at all the research over the years that basically came to the same conclusions as it does today.

[00:19:32] Most change management transformations, M&As, et cetera, they either underperform or fail. So technology with AI now can start to obviously help us analyze, come up with some guidance, come up with inferences as to why. Why is this happening? Why are we, why did we have success before in recruiting and retaining the best and all of a sudden, you know, that's not happening here anymore?

[00:20:02] Well, maybe it's because we're not handling change well as an organization. And that, I mean, that should be now. A universal core competency is handling change in a fluid operating system and being able to strategically, operationally or technologically, that's a mouthful, pivot. And, yes, I'm seeing technology in the form of use cases again, look at what skills are becoming more or less important.

[00:20:32] That's an agility use case. If you, if you're good at A, will you be good at B? Right. Or if it's adjacent skill, how long will it take? Ramp up times, still a white space. I don't see anybody talking about white space yet in terms of the vendor community. But, but I do see predictive use cases and interpreting what is the data telling me.

[00:21:02] The one caveat or kind of a gotcha, if you're just an AI enthusiast and you'll just, you know, if you, what's the expression? If you have a tool, you'll find a place to use it sort of thing. And so the gotcha is AI does have one thing in common with people. I haven't heard many people say this and the thought just hit me. But AI is into self-preservation just like people are into self-preservation.

[00:21:31] AI wants to be useful and important and have a role in your organization. And AI is not going to tell you when it doesn't have critical mass of data to be able to come up with a conclusion or infer something important and come up with some guidance. It won't, typically won't tell you. So you're going to have to figure that out for yourself. Maybe human in the loop should be applied to that as well.

[00:21:52] And we were just talking yesterday about how I think you're the OG CEO of the HR, the female CEO, excuse me, of the HR tech industry. How was that all going? Oh, my goodness. Wow. Well, that is pretty amazing that I'm like OG. Yeah. Eight years into this. I always say it's like dog years. So I'm pretty old at this point. So. Fantastic. And how has the conference been for you so far? It's been great.

[00:22:22] You know, it's I think this is probably my 15th HR tech. One five for the people keeping count at home. We're going to 15 one five. One five. Yeah. I started attending it when it was in elementary school. That's right. Yes. When I was an itty bitty baby. Um, and, uh, yeah, so it is grown, just exploded since then. And my first HR tech was Chicago as well. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:49] So maybe we're about the same number of years, although I've had more gaps. Yeah. Yeah. And there was, I mean, at that show, I don't think there was a single screen. I mean, it was the booths, but like there was, I mean, it was like maybe people had laptops that they were demoing, but like you look around HR tech now. And I mean, it's like you could power an entire city with all the electronics that are here. So, I mean, it's exploded.

[00:23:13] The show has been great because, um, you know, the people and being able to rekindle and reconnect with people I haven't seen in years. I would say in this industry, the road is long and the path is narrow. So, so much of the time, um, you may have worked with somebody, you know, 20 years ago and you see them now in a totally different business, business context. And, um, yet the friendship is still there.

[00:23:41] So my favorite thing is just seeing the people getting to know some, some of the basic community. It is very much so. Bonnie, you, um, like the thing that I love about you is you, you have this incredible, uh, set of data that you operate with. Right. And, uh, you have your recent study, uh, that has some really interesting insights. And I wanted to delve a little bit into one of those.

[00:24:09] Uh, you found that there was more, uh, there was a big difference between platform loyalty or a surprising difference, excuse me, between platform loyalty and partner loyalty. Yes. And so tell us what surprised you about it and what the implications are for listeners. Yeah. In every single one of our reviews, we ask two distinct questions about satisfaction.

[00:24:34] First, how satisfied were you with the vendor and the software? And then the second one, how satisfied were you with your partner? And that was the person who helped you and the team who helped you get live. And overwhelmingly, no matter what software the customer is reviewing, the loyalty and love was first for the partner and then for the platform.

[00:25:01] And I think the relationship that is built between the company and the individuals, um, on a team and their, the camaraderie that needs to happen for a project to be successful makes the platform. I'm sorry, the, the, the partner loyalty so much higher. Um, and this feeling that there's a kinship and a shared, um, goal of, of success.

[00:25:30] So, so much of the time on these reviews, satisfaction with the partner is higher, even though they might like their software vendor. They like the platform. Um, you know, that, that, that aside, there is in a good project. Um, there is a love for the partner if they've done a good job because they truly have walked a mile with the client or in the case, sometimes a thousand miles depending on the implementation together.

[00:25:59] Was this different in this study compared to past studies or is this an ongoing thing? I think it's better this year than we've seen in years past, but since we've started measuring this since 2018 customers have always, there's always been a disparity between the two metrics,

[00:26:24] but this year I think partners have really gone above and beyond knowing that, you know, their livelihood depends on that satisfaction rate, um, in making clients happy. And it does actually say two things, even in this era of AI, it's really the human connection and human relationships that matter. And we all feel that, and we know that to be true, but I think there's another element.

[00:26:53] And I, I think you kind of got to that as well. Whenever you've been in a foxhole with someone, whenever you've done something hard with someone, that creates an opportunity for a deeper relationship than you would have otherwise. And I think all of us know that doing implementations are difficult. And maybe it's harder now than it ever has been. Yeah. So, so having people in there with you is probably more important than ever.

[00:27:21] So all of the partners, good job, but also keep in mind, this is the durable relationship moment that you really need to continue to build that kind of, um, both the velocity for where you're trying to go, but also for, uh, continuity of where that future takes your business. Latest thing is this meals with strangers. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:27:47] So one of the things that I did when I moved to, I moved to Boise, new city, didn't really know anybody, my kids were at college there. And so I did what any normal mom does and followed them. And so, but I didn't really have a community. And so one of the things that I found they had there because so many people were moving to this area is they have dinners with strangers. And so you get matched up with like 10 other people that are kind of at similar life stage

[00:28:16] type of jobs, all of these. And you just get to meet other people in the community. And I have found them so fascinating, the type of people that I have met. And so at a couple of events earlier this year, I thought, what if we did something similar at these events? Because it's really overwhelming to come to any of the conferences. There's, they're so big. It sometimes feels like everybody already knows each other. And so how do we create a smaller environment?

[00:28:43] Um, so people feel a little bit more welcomed and have a little bit of friendly faces. And so I started doing these kind of like hosted, like, if you know me and you want to have dinner with a bunch of other strangers, let's bring like seven to 10 people together and you get a chance to meet each other. And, and it's really grown into something great with almost 30 people participate in these random meals. They're non-hosted. They're not sponsored. Um, it's just random people coming together. And so far we have had, uh, partnerships done.

[00:29:12] We have had contracts signed. We have had, um, somebody got hired randomly, unexpectedly. And so it's just been. You're the modern day Yenta. I, I'm just like, like the mom, right? Like, like, let's just make sure everybody feels included. Um, and so it's just been a really fun thing. And the same with the jobs. Like I, I'm not a recruiter anymore, but we have such great talent in this industry and we're losing such great talent because it's very hard to know who's really hiring, what's actually going on.

[00:29:42] And so if we can connect the dots between people that are in the industry looking for their next job, particularly with a, a vendor or a solution provider in the space, and we could fill that need for them and keep really great talent in the space. I think it's something that just benefits everybody around. You know, it's so interesting because what we're starting to see emerge in this moment is not only a deep yearning for in-person experiences and human connection, but people like yourself

[00:30:11] stepping in to fill that gap of how do we bring people together in ways that are authentic, that are pro-social and that are essentially giving back. And so thank you for doing that. And I love, I really love, I really love that. And it's, it's real, a real gift to introverts. So we are all about inventing the future. So if you were to invent the future, what would that future look like, Bonnie?

[00:30:39] I think it would be where tech becomes more invisible to a process. It becomes more invisible to the employee themselves. I mean, everything that we talk about now is all about AI, AI, AI, AI. And it's focused on the tech as opposed to how are we enabling work to get done better,

[00:31:05] more creatively, how are we empowering employees to do more things or better things, not more, right? Like, but more impactful things than in the future. And so I think inventing the future would be less focused on how do we get this tech to work and more focused on, you know, how do we continue to improve the work relationship?

[00:31:32] How do we improve like the actual work product itself, as opposed to how do we actually implement this stuff? So value creation versus, hey, we've got some tech to use. That's exactly right. Love it. Love it. And fewer meetings. Fewer meetings. In terms of inventing the future, I would have a wider lens on all the things that go into leveraging a workforce for competitive advantage.

[00:31:58] And I kind of alluded to it before, but part of it, I think, is accounting for moments that matter to both the micro and the macro level, employee and the organization. So if I was to invent the future, I would say have a broader lens in terms of

[00:32:22] focusing as much on what you don't know that you need to know about the person and the organization and what is the path for success at the micro and the macro level. I think if I was to invent the future, I think we would really have companies that were far more focused on creating a quality of life for their employees.

[00:32:46] And I think that we have a lot of us really are passionate about the space. I know we've all had conversations off this like at the end of the day, I feel if we do this right, we can make life easier for employees in a world that is already filled with so much stress and anxiety and worry. The last thing they should care about is their payroll app not working or not being able to

[00:33:11] request time off or, you know, not being able to get a paycheck stub because they need to buy a car because their engine just blew up, right? Like there's all of these things that we can do to really make life easier. But beyond that, and so from the vendor side, everything that we do should be thought about making things easier for the people that are using and the people that they support.

[00:33:33] But as employers, we really need to start rethinking work around how do we create jobs around the person and what they are best at and what they're gifted in and are interested in doing instead of trying to fit people into jobs that may or may not make sense in this new economy. You know, I was thinking about this and I think about this because, you know, I'm a dad.

[00:33:59] I feel like I'm trying to think about the future I want for my kid, right? And I think I want a future where my kid and where every kid belongs in a place where it works valued for what it is. Works not your life, right? I mean, I think we've already figured that part out. But, I mean, it's also something that's really positive.

[00:34:23] I think about how tough it is, you know, for some of my parents and my in-laws to retire because they get great value out of their jobs. It's not that they wanted to work as much as they were. They just want to be contributing. They want to contribute. Yeah. And I think if you take that out, and that's one of the challenges I have with a lot of the AI stuff out there today is you're taking people out of roles.

[00:34:52] And the funny thing is, I think people are like, oh, we're just automating the really terrible parts about jobs. But, like, my mom, she worked as a legal secretary for, you know, a law office. And, like, part of her job is, like, you know, reviewing documents and that sort of thing. She did great at that. Like, yes, a software can do that, but it's not going to catch the same sort of things that somebody that's been doing this for 30 years does, right? And she gets great enjoyment out of it.

[00:35:18] So ask her, like, say, use this AI tool now, and instead of reviewing, like, one doc per hour, you're reviewing 30 docs per hour, and you're looking at the output of this stupid AI that's making mistakes. I think that's why she retired because she didn't – she's like, well, I'm not going to be valued anymore, so I'm going to go quilt and have a great time with my grandkids, right? Like, so good for you finding your place, but, like, I think there is value there. And I'm hoping, like, that, you know, our kids will all find that same spot.

[00:35:47] What is your best strategy for managing the sensory overload of the HR Tech Conference? Touching grass. Where do you go to touch grass? Yeah. Give some tips. It is – I look for sunlight, and there's a couple of doors out here that I've seen that said exit. And just the ability to get outside and outside of the conference room and actually walk,

[00:36:14] that's a huge thing for me is to disconnect for a little bit and walk around the Mandalay Bay. You're speaking to Amy Wilson's soul. Yes. Yeah, and the step counter is pretty high, but I would say getting that morning sun is a big deal and walking. I think somebody said, like, touch grass. I heard her earlier. I do – like, getting out of here is good, whatever that means.

[00:36:43] I do try not to stay at the conference hotel, even though it's very convenient. I like to try to exercise in the morning, particularly, even though sometimes I don't maybe look or feel like doing that. I just – you know, it's good to sort of do that because it is – it's very claustrophobic, and I wish people, like, who aren't here could experience just how narrow some of these aisles are. And, like, especially when they're – How much is coming at you. And it's just like – you're going down – it's like you're going down, you know, Boulevard in New York City.

[00:37:12] You're in Times Square on steroids. Man, it's all just HR tech. It's not the musicals that you see on Broadway. Actually, I always have this sort of vision of, like, the scene from Snow White where the branches of the trees were coming out to attack. Like, you're walking down and everybody's, like, trying to pull you into their booth, and you're like, ah! Well, I used to, like, have a sticker over the QR code on my badge, so, like, please don't. Right.

[00:37:42] I'm a big consent guy. Like, do not – Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do not try to just sneak a scan on me. I already have your flyers. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Like, if – Oh, yeah, we got – we got accosted by a lotion guy. We thought it was just a vendor handing out, like, little – A lotion guy? Yeah. And then he was trying to sell me eye cream to basically – Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, like, one of the Las Vegas scams. That's what was nice to hear, right? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate that.

[00:38:07] So, like, Las Vegas scams that you find, you know, out in the casino. But they were here on the expo floor. I was like – What is going on? And trying to convince Meg and I that, like, if we bought this eye cream, then we would, you know – But it looked worse, I thought. So, yeah. Oh. Okay. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, like, I think that's good advice. Don't do that. Oh. Two things.

[00:38:36] I actually never have told this. So, I have a playlist called Patagonia Vesta Vegas. And it's, like, very heavy club EDM music. Oh. So, you just go all in. All the sensory. And if I pop it in, it's so, like, all over. It, like, resets my ADD brain. Oh. And you can just go. There's also a couple of hidden – That's wild. It sounds like the opposite.

[00:39:03] It sounds like those people that are, like, oh, when it's hot out, you need to drink hot coffee. Yeah. Well, but that's an ADD thing, right? Like, Ritalin and all of that is speed. So, ADD brains need the opposite of what makes sense to you or typical. In our younger years, you know, obviously, we've been on coming to this for a lot of years. In our younger years, we would end the night and we would go out to one of the clubs because the light, the music, everything else. We would spend literally 15 minutes just that.

[00:39:33] We'd be able to leave and go to bed and everything would be fine. Wow. And it would just, like, ADD reset. All right. Individualization versus re-overload. Indeed. The other thing is there's a couple of hiding spots. And so, there's hiding spots that when I get a little bit overwhelmed, I know exactly where they're at on the floor. And during the day, nobody's at them. And so, I'll kind of sneak over and be able to get some stuff done and nobody sees you. And then you can kind of, like, come back and get right at it.

[00:40:00] Definitely deployed the hide in a conference before. Yeah. I can't tell you where. Yeah. Absolutely not. But, yes. Have some conversations that are not just about HR tech. Oh, I love it. You know, connect with people in a way that you'll take, it'll be one of your highlights. I try to make one of my highlights every year at this conference to be something that has nothing to do with HR tech.

[00:40:25] And, in a way, it's almost like doing yoga here. It's a mental, it's a good mental exercise. I had a conversation with somebody from Darwin Box that I didn't know the person. I've done some work with them, but I never met this person, Rahul, before. And we wound up spending 20 minutes talking about our personal lives. Oh, yeah. And our histories and the career path. And it was a connection to me.

[00:40:55] I worked with them. I'll remember that conversation probably more than most with vendors. I love Rahul. We work together at Workday. He's a great guy. So, I'm surprised nobody used your trick, Amy, the chair massage. So, Amy used the chair massage. And she did encourage me to join her yesterday. We might have time to do that again today. And it was definitely worth it. The one that's out here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right on the way in. It's amazing. I don't like people publicly touching me, though. I don't know about that. You close your eyes. You don't even know you're there.

[00:41:25] Oh, there you go. The thing is that it's just a chair massage. Okay. And you've got your clothes on and everything. Why not? Yeah, but I guess put on your headphones and you kind of just zoom in and close your eyes. Yeah, yeah. Your head is under so nobody can see you. Right, right, right. It's like when you're a toddler and you're hiding for hide and seek. Yeah, hey, that's perfect. I might have to try that again. I definitely recommend it. Yeah, it seemed very affordable. It just, like I said, it just seemed very public. I don't know why I have to hang up about that, but I do.