From HR Silos to Shared Purpose: Leading with Connection, Community & Intention

[00:00:00] Welcome to the EVOLVE Talent & HR Show. We're building the rooms where HR and talent leaders learn, connect, and evolve. I'm Anna Morgan, and this is the space where people-first leaders come for courageous conversations. Whether you're leading from the C-suite, emerging as a new voice, building community, or driving change within your organization, this show is for you. Every episode brings voices that are driving change in the HR and talent community. We're going to get into the strategies, conversations, and the strategies, and the strategies.

[00:00:30] We're going to get into the conversations and movements that matter. Because here's what we know. Every conversation matters. Every introduction, every shared experience, it creates momentum that extends far beyond the room. And that is the EVOLVE multiplier. When we collaborate, overcompete, when we connect with intention, the opportunities, the relationships, and the impact compound across our entire community. You've tuned into a podcast, but this is actually your connection to the entire EVOLVE ecosystem.

[00:01:00] New episodes come out weekly. Now it's your turn to evolve. Welcome. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Evolve Talent and HR Show. I'm Anna Morgan, and I'm so excited to be here today, this morning, with one of my outlier Atlanta great friends, someone I look up to greatly in the people-first leadership community. So, Maggie Breedy, welcome to the Evolve Talent and HR Show.

[00:01:30] Yes, thank you. It's great to be here. I'm excited. Awesome. Well, you and I crossed paths through a community group called the Outlier Project. This group was really originally founded for, it ended up being HR and Talent People because the founder, Scott McGregor, had an agency called Something New that was an executive recruitment and staffing organization.

[00:01:58] But it has evolved now to be a very diverse community that really encourages and has this vibe and theme of, you know, we can choose to be extraordinary over ordinary. That's about right. And there's another slogan, people over everything. People over everything. I have my picture up there as well. Then you have been in various leadership capacities with some great organizations, mostly here in Atlanta.

[00:02:28] So why don't you take me back a little bit to, you know, how you decided to step into people leadership and maybe some of the lessons learned and what you're excited about today? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. My background, just a couple of headlines on just kind of what my career has looked like. I started and so I was a psych major. I did not know what to do with that, but I loved studying the human mind. A psych major is a great hospitality worker. Yeah. It is such a useful degree.

[00:02:57] I will say I'm very grateful for my dad encouraging me to like study in college what actually I was like, what I was passionate about and excited about and like not to be limited by, oh, like, but what am I, what job is this going to translate to? So let's pause there for just a second for people listening, because I think that's so important.

[00:03:18] And you and I were sharing before we hit record as mothers, I have a senior in high school and you're celebrating one going off to college and navigating the first four weeks of that. And how important really your father empowering you to, you know, almost go the different direction than other people during that time, because it's like, you know, you have to decide now that you want to be a veterinarian.

[00:03:46] You know, when you're in eighth grade and you're like, come on. So I'm sure that you are embodying that as you lead your children through, you know, their own educational path. Yes. I think that's so important. It is. And thank you for highlighting it. You know, my therapist has told me there's a term for it, corrective parenting. But yeah. I might need this therapist. I love her.

[00:04:11] But yeah, like when the more aware we are of how our patterns and our experiences and how they've impacted us, that awareness allows us to show up in a different way if we choose. And so, yeah, I've been very intentional about passing through that message from my parents and my dad specifically around, like, as Grace goes off, I'm like, take a bunch of different classes. Because she did have to declare a major right away. And I was like, she doesn't know. So she said business. I'm like, okay, within business, there's even a bazillion different tracks.

[00:04:41] So I just encouraged her, go in. And college is about learning how to learn, you know, at a different level. And just find what you're passionate about. Don't worry about the job yet. Yeah. So, okay. So I started in consulting, changed management consulting. It was a great way to get a lot of experience across a broad set of companies and complex organizational issues and how they impact the people. Right. So that was great, but it was also really intense. And I was on the road for two years straight, you know, 14-hour days. I just was like, this is not for me.

[00:05:09] So when I decided I wanted to make a shift, I really learned about the role of an HR function through that consulting. Because I was like the clients that we were working with, that leadership team. So I went back to get my MBA. And then I got into, like, my formal HR track. I worked for GE, did their HR leadership program. From there, I went to a couple other. I went to a private equity, back to company, back to public. Then I went to my first tech startup. And now I'm back at a private equity company. So it's just been all different industries.

[00:05:37] But I've been in all aspects of HR. So HR business partner has always been kind of like my sweet spot. But I've done a bunch of different specialist roles. And right now, I have, like, a perfect job. Not perfect, right? But I have a really exciting scope where it combines the HR partner side with the talent and leadership development. I want to jump into that. Say that again. That you're doing HR and talent, yes? Yes. Yes. Two questions.

[00:06:03] One, are you seeing more roles and organizational structures similar to what you are building and managing in that capacity? No. No. This feels very unique. What's more common to me is to see more of the traditional, you know, HR partner versus, like, there's HR partner side and then there's the specialist side. Like, to me, that is still what I'm seeing most prevalently.

[00:06:30] But I think there's a bite cap this works right now. So, you know, it's all contextual. But right now, when she hired me two and a half years ago, our CHRO, this is what she needed. She needed a leader over these two spaces. And at the time, it didn't make sense to kind of hire two senior leaders over smaller scope. Let's hire one senior leader, you know, kind of dig into both sides. And then we would evolve and build up when it was time.

[00:06:56] There's so much interlock or interconnectivity between the talent space and the HR partner side in terms of at a leadership level, right? Of understanding the business context and then all the talent implications and, like, bringing those together in a really meaningful way. So that's the part of my scope right now that I love. Yeah. Amazing.

[00:07:16] The second question, because I personally have a strong opinion and, you know, build my communities and experiences to force HR and talent to be in the same room. You know, some say talent is HR, right, which is common. And then, but my lived experience has been such that I've been in rooms where there is just such a divide, right?

[00:07:46] And it's pointing fingers. It is, that's not my job. That's HR's job and all the things. And in service of elevating the world of work and fixing what is broken, the more time we spend together in community and understanding, the more capable we are to accelerate our business goals and outcomes, right? Like, why is that so hard for most organizations to understand?

[00:08:16] Well, you just hit the nail on the head in terms of, like, I'm going to say pet peeve, but, like, maybe it's actually more passionate if I reframe. Let's get into the tea, girl. Let's go. Yeah. So, I don't know. I mean, when I was at GE, maybe that was the formative experience and everything, every other company built upon that. But it was always going in and actually, I observed leaders come in and really emphasize the way that all the different parts of HR have to work together to deliver for the business. Yeah.

[00:09:15] Does not care how us behind the HR curtain get stuff done. All they care about. They don't care. Don't care. Right. They just want you to do your job and get the person in the seat. Let's go. Exactly. So, that's what we keep on doing. I don't know that it's any, it's obviously not like anyone's intention for there to be these silos or this friction. I think it's the nature of just, you get focused on your day-to-day role and you want to get stuff done.

[00:09:43] And I think it's a leader's responsibility to step back and paint the big picture of how all these roles do have to fit together. And some of it's really nuanced in terms of, you know, like project teams and who's owning what. And, you know, theory. Yeah. In theory, it's simple. In execution, it's massively complex. But, you know, I like thinking about your story, you know, starting in consulting.

[00:10:08] So, you're like pulling back, working with a wide variety of like industries probably. And you're watching that stakeholder interaction, right? Then you go level up and sharpen your skills to get into people leadership. And, you know, the companies that you've worked with have ranged from industry and size and public and private.

[00:10:28] And, but the golden thread is, you know, the understanding piece and the grace and compassion and, you know, ways to improve that candidate experience, right? And hit your hiring team's criteria and goals while helping them build loyalty and engagement and stay runway with talent.

[00:10:53] Because as we are facing the AI disruption, the massive amounts of candidate influx. I don't know if you're seeing that. Like, yeah, the just numbers are insane. And then, you know, a lot of companies are, you know, doing more with less. And so, you know, a lot of times my solution is something that is just as old as time. It's like sit down and have a meal together.

[00:11:20] And like focus on human to human and start there. And then watch really the ripple effect and impact with some guidance from a leader like you that, you know, one embodies it. And then two can tell the story to their teams, to the organization as a whole so that they're like, ah, I get it. I'm part of this. And because I understand it, we're all charging up the mountain together.

[00:11:50] Yes. Beautifully said and very challenging to execute for whatever reason. But I love what you said about that's another theme that we've been reinforcing with our directors and above over the past year and within the broader HR team is bringing them together, like opening up conversations about the different roles and how they're supposed to work together. And most importantly, you guys start picking up the phone. Like stop with the back and forth when you're frustrated or something's not working. Per my last email.

[00:12:21] Yeah. Like just pick up the phone and get to know each other and recognize that we all, no one is bad or evil on this team. Like everyone's trying to do the right thing. So it's such human nature. I think this is so relatable. And I think it's a conversation that a lot of people leaders are afraid to have, you know. And I know that you said it's challenging, right, to kind of bring those two profiles together. Can you speak to any particular roadblocks or situations?

[00:12:50] Is it ego? Is it scheduling? Is it bandwidth that creates friction in, you know, the alignment of kind of this culture, you know, way of being within the way you all work? Yeah. No, it's a great question. And I'm just going to summarize, I think, across just my all this lived experience across these different companies. Because it's all been a lot of patterns and themes.

[00:13:22] It's, I think the biggest challenge is a lot of people have not seen like a really mature, highly performing HR function. And so I think it's a resistance to change when they start. We're all just traumatized. Yeah. And they're like, wait, I have to do, wait, what do you mean? I used to own all of this or now, what do you mean? I now have to take out parts of my role and give them to other people to do.

[00:13:49] And so there's, that's one underlying theme is just, I think, awareness of the model and like trusting it and believing and leaning into it. And then the other piece, I think is sometimes as you bring, as you hire new people onto the team and there's also legacy. And when you have leadership changes, like someone like me coming in, it's like there's going to be, in some cases, right, philosophy changes.

[00:14:15] And I think some people, what I've realized is sometimes it's two people who just have very different past experiences and they've been shaped by the company's culture they were in. And the philosophies just are not aligned. And so that's like, you just have to kind of work through that together. And it's like, I see you and I understand why you are the way you are, why you think the way you do. But like, in this context, I think we need to shift a little bit, you know? Yeah.

[00:14:41] And I mean, there are, when I think of big employers like GE and I've interacted with a lot of players from, you know, that kind of huge company.

[00:14:54] And there's some patterns that I've been able to connect that in a new environment where I worked with some folks like that, without the humility to observe, be curious and open to change really backfired on that leader because they were used to that, you know, GE way and methodology, but totally different environment, different teams and all the things.

[00:15:21] And you're kind of sitting back and being like, I don't want this to crash, but they can't hear me behind the glass. Right. Yeah. Which was really unfortunate. But like you said before we hit record, a lot of times when you have those objections, roadblocks, challenges, they are the best teachers. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's all information. Right. Like. Yeah. That's something I was saying. Like at this point in my life, I'm kind of realizing I don't want to call things mistakes.

[00:15:50] It's just you have lived experience and you can choose to learn from it, you know? So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those things have been the greatest teachers ever. And, you know, when I was in early mid career and in recruiting full cycle agency life, when that deal fell apart and it affected my paycheck, I did some serious like SWOT analysis and evaluation so that I didn't miss that step again.

[00:16:18] And you take that experience with you as you continue forward. So as I've been scaling my own business and hiring people, I've been talking to a lot of my friends that are building and I'm like, I've placed hundreds, thousands of people over my career. And, you know, recruiting is easy for me. Right.

[00:16:39] And I realized there was a reason I chose to pretty much be an IC my entire career, even though I played that coach role. I was like, I didn't want to mess with the people side, which is so hilarious and like just confusing because I have such a heart for people and I'm fascinated by them.

[00:17:02] But I don't like using the words to communicate to try to figure out how to lead them, you know. And I'm like, can I outsource that to AI? Because this feels very uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. You hit on something that's so common. And I totally that's why there's a need for all different types of roles and people, talent, you know, in those roles because, yeah, like people management.

[00:17:33] Is the hardest part of my job right now. Yeah. It always has been. It's never been to your point. It's not the budget. No, it's not the job description. No, it's managing humans, right? Yes. And like it takes a lot of intention and energy and time to get to know someone and know what motivates them and like how to give feedback in a way that feels good. It feels productive. I don't mean feels good like it's always positive, but like it lands in a way that's meaningful and sincere. Right. Even if it's hard.

[00:18:03] Yes. Yeah. Most people aren't taught how to do that. And so we when, you know, obviously this has been happening forever, but you get really strong ICs who are then the only career path if they want to elevate is the people track. And so they're like, OK, I guess this is what I need to do. And then we promote them and we don't give them the map or the support on how to lead effectively. So, yeah. And it's a vicious cycle.

[00:18:28] Well, and in your role, you're probably touching learning and development and pathways for engagement and succession planning and workforce planning, all of that. And, you know, this is why I'm trying to like scream from the rooftops to hire up leaders like yourself. Are you having the conversations with your teams about like innovative ways for them to feel connected?

[00:18:56] You know, let them out of the office for breakfast, lunch, you know, community dinners. Take your team to a conference twice a year. You know, those things go so far versus a LinkedIn learning training or just look at a screen for another hour type of situation.

[00:19:15] But it is hard because I remember trying to do like fun stuff and people being like, no, we are not dressing up like firefighters for Halloween because that's dumb, you know. That's so funny. And it's like I can't win. Like, you know, that's why I'm like, peace out. I'm done. That's hilarious. No, but yeah, this is a good one. I think about it in a couple different ways. Like right now, we've been focusing on building the internal HR team community. And it's really hard.

[00:19:44] We have a dispersed workforce. I mean, we have some like. Well, that's a whole nother podcast episode right there. I know. Multi-location, dispersed, hybrid community or team, right? Exactly.

[00:19:59] And so we've been trying to at least our director level as a starting point, we've been pretty intentional over the past year around bringing them together in meaningful ways to talk about certain like development, like different competencies and just getting everyone on the same page and having like a structured dialogue around it. It's putting learning and development, but in the context of stuff we're actually dealing with day to day and like talking through it together. Yeah.

[00:20:24] And then we also like in our office here in Atlanta have started dedicating once a month to have just have lunch together. You know, like it does not even you can go out and see a lot, but like, right. But at some point you have to then when you feel like you have the right internal foundation, you got to start to encourage and promote and advocate for the external community to bring in the different perspectives and spark the innovation and the creativity. And so that, you know, I do see that happening more and more with the team as now that we've kind of got the foundation right.

[00:20:53] And I'm always worried and like curious because, well, I probably could have worked my way into a role like you're in now. I was never at the table to hear the conversations about budget planning for the teams and how much is dedicated to their learning, attending conferences or communities and whatnot.

[00:21:17] And, you know, if I were to advise a company or leaders, what would you suggest a team of your size, which how many employees is the sweet spot for you all right now? Total associates, we have over 11,000. Okay. So, I mean, decent size and that's similar from where I came from.

[00:21:39] You know, for your recruiting, sourcing, HR business partners and such, what should people be looking at from an investment standpoint for conferences? Because some of $88 and others are $2,400. Yeah. I would say the way I would think about it is, or I have thought about it, is I don't want to just, I want, if I'm going to spend any type of money, even if it's small, I want there to be a clear return on investment.

[00:22:07] And so it's got to be the right quality of conference. It's got to be relevant to a business problem or business strategy, right? And I would basically, I expect a business case for it. Here's why, here's what the conference offers. Here's why I want to go. Here's what I expect to take away from it.

[00:22:29] Here's how I'm actually going to think about like sharing the learnings back with the team and embedding it into, you know, as long as it's intentional and thought through, that's what I'm going to ultimately make the call on. And then I'll learn, right? We'll go through that. Say we invest X, you know, whatever much money one year. Yeah. Then we'll assess and go, did we get what we want? It was a value there. So I don't love a one size fits all approach. And there's so many options. You know, options.

[00:22:58] I mean, I think, you know, for people listening, the biggest thing is be open to the conversations and communicate with your teams and let them know that they are empowered to explore these things. And, you know, as you were saying earlier, like I need to get that on my calendar for fall of 27. It's like so many of us in whether it's full cycle recruiting or other HR roles, it's like we're so busy taking care of everyone and knocking out those wrecks.

[00:23:27] You know, I try to remind people like once a quarter to put it on your calendar, to take a hot minute, do a couple searches or set up some agents to go out and look about conferences that would align with your business challenges. And opportunities, size, all the things that matter to you so that you can be ahead of the game. Right.

[00:23:49] And I say that because like the two conferences I've hosted, the buying pattern of our community, they are a bunch of procrastinators. Let me tell you, they wait until two weeks before to purchase their tickets, which makes us event organizers sweat a little bit.

[00:24:09] So, you know, and again, I've gotten much better in my planning, but that is an important note for people listening to take the time to do the research. And oftentimes on the websites, you'll find the language to help you to make a business case together. Right. Exactly. What really gets me fired up is when companies are like, well, I'll give you the day off, but I'm not going to pay for it or I'll pay for it, but you have to take PTO.

[00:24:40] Hmm. Yeah, I don't subscribe to that at all. It's an investment and it's going to have if it's right, that's in theory going to have a return on investment for the business for that person in that role. So, yeah, that's not at all supportive of the intent of going to a conference. You got to like make it all consistent. It's also hard, like where, yes, like go to the conference, learn, be in community, connect, you know, all the things. And then what I see is that a team member gets to go.

[00:25:09] So they're going solo and maybe they're new on the conference scene. You have probably been to more, but then they are just like a deer in headlights, right? Like how do I navigate this space?

[00:25:21] And one of the things I've been noodling on is building like a evolved bookend experience on four conferences so that, one, I can teach people how to be less awkward in these situations because so many people's connection, IRL, how to navigate these landscapes have been dulled since COVID, right?

[00:25:48] And so they are just like, well, I'll just suffer and be lonely instead of saying yes to something new. And so building a safe container, which, again, could be at different conferences for different vendors, just exclusively for attendees. So then they're walking into conference day one and people know their names. Yes. You know, hashtag cheers. Like there's something to that.

[00:26:13] And like I take that for granted when I walk in and people within 10 minutes are like Anna Morgan, you know. If you're just starting this process, it can be massively intimidating. And then in the back of your head is like, I have to do a business case for my team. Oh, my God. Like I got to get to the sessions. I've got to take all the notes. And I feel like. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:35] And it's like, so if there is a space where day zero we can gather and talk about where we've been, what we've done, what's important, what are the challenges and build a strategy. Right. I'm going to go to these sessions and this is what I'm hoping to take. And here's the people I want to meet and why. Right. Yes. And like proclaim that to the small group. Then you have like a mini sales army or connecting army at that conference.

[00:27:04] And then the end of the experience is, and tell me if this is relatable because it's ever, it seems like it was on repeat for a long time for me. You're so excited. You've learned so much. You've met so many people. And then you get back to your desk and you're like, I'm going to do all these things and schedule the podcast and connect with this person and go on this trip with this person and ask them these follow up questions. And then your inbox explodes. Right.

[00:27:32] And you are back in the weeds of your everyday business. And all of that opportunity and knowledge just goes out the window. So true. How nice would it be to have half a day or a day combined with a little self-care spa time to execute on all of those to-dos? Yes.

[00:27:53] And I love the idea because it's creating space to then process and integrate what you actually took away content wise. Create things that spark, you know, because that's another, if you don't grab onto that, those moments will quickly become. Right. You know, something of the past and not actually action.

[00:28:11] On the connection side, being really intentional about which connections felt authentic, both, you know, authentic and there's a mutual benefit, right, for both of you to develop it. You don't need to respond to everyone. But like, yeah, I think I love your idea because it forces some reflection on who are the, maybe it's three to five people, not 20, right, that you. Yeah, it doesn't have to be about quantity. It's about quality.

[00:28:40] And, you know, it's reminding people also that it only takes one person to change your life, right? Yeah. Or to just blow up your world. And we are blessed and lucky to see that so much within communities that we've been a part of. And I think that is an important component to take with you as you're navigating community building and attending a variety of places where you can learn and develop.

[00:29:08] But I feel like people just get so overwhelmed with, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to travel. I'm going to have to leave my kid or all the things. And there's so much joy and connection to be found in these spaces. So trying to build more of those containers that really allow them to meet the business goals, but also nourish their own souls. Yeah, you're personal, truly.

[00:29:37] And it's a part of staying engaged and excited about the work you do. Right. If you're always in your silo and your inward, you know, context of your company only, that's just at some point for most people, that's not going to be enough. Like you need to have. And then also realize you have ideas to share with the world. You know, it's not just about you absorbing from others. It's like you have things to share. You can unlock something for a vendor because you have some specific thing that happened to you and a thought about it.

[00:30:07] And that sparks something in the vendor about their user design. You know, like it's just. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I just wanted to ask. I mean, so many options there. And your team came to the first conference and it was lovely to meet them. We didn't connect in 26, but I would like to share the on-demand library with your team, maybe to get some feedback on kind of what they think.

[00:30:32] And as I thank you for just being a part of the Evolve community and such an important kind of person to for me to look ahead to. And with that, I want to talk a little bit about a recent little secret that you were keeping and the fact that you were recently part of She Is Atlanta, which is a documentary and photography project celebrating women over 40. Where's the over 50? Let's go.

[00:31:02] It was everyone over 40, not just 40s. But it was in service of, you know, women over 40, powerhouses, badasses, awesome humans like you that are really shaping Atlanta's future. So tell me about that experience. That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you. It was a really powerful experience. I had no intention of doing a project like this. But, you know, it crossed my path and I was really.

[00:31:31] You have to pay attention to those nudges, right? It was the nudge. It was the, huh, this project looks really interesting. And as I researched the photographer, she had done a project like this in Tulsa a few years ago. And it was beautiful artwork. And really, I loved the spirit of it. And so I applied. And like the questions she asked, they were thoughtful. And I think I was just at a point in my journey where I was ready to like own my story, put it out there and, you know, honor it, celebrate it, whatever you want to call it.

[00:31:59] And so when she called me and said she'd like me to be a part of it, I was like, okay, let's do this. I had no idea what to expect. And so it was a long project. We shot everything and did the interviews like almost a year. Actually, it was a year ago. And then it was July last two months ago. She had the premiere of the documentary. We had a screening party at this old theater south of Atlanta.

[00:32:22] And it was just a moment for all these women who never would have met, most likely, right, to come together and just celebrate our stories. They're all so different. We had all different backgrounds. It was a very cool moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's just a reminder that our voices matter, which is what we were just saying by attending these events and being in community. It gives us that permission slip to be like, oh, I heard this person speak about that.

[00:32:49] Wow, I have a hack that I'm doing every day to make hiring better or to improve candidate experience or whatever. But tying into our friend Rachel Druckenmiller, like if you don't unmute yourself, you're not going to give yourself access to the beauty and the joy and the connection that said, you know, where you said yes to trying something new and pushing a different edge, not knowing what the outcome could be.

[00:33:17] And now kind of in this space of celebration, innovation of learning and being with other women outside of our space is really just magical. And I think that's important for people to pay attention to when a reoccurring theme comes up or someone taps you on the shoulder and they see something in you that is you're invisible to maybe because you're just too close to it. Right. Yes, absolutely.

[00:33:45] Yeah, you said a couple of things that just really I'm like being aware of the nudges when something kind of like, oh, that's tugging on my heartstrings a minute. Like, what is this? And then this whole idea of just it's a hell yes or a hell no, like but be open to doing the things that maybe feel a little uncomfortable. And then I think, too, there's a leadership lesson here around that's really important to me that.

[00:34:06] The more that we can be our authentic selves and really live that embody it, it does create space for other people to be them, you know, to be their authentic selves. And to your point, like the more of that that's flowing around, it's just the ripple effects are huge. Huge. Huge. And it's like on those days when I have the worst imposter syndrome ever and I'm like, how did I get here? Who in the hell am I to be doing this?

[00:34:36] It's, again, breathing, taking a second, picking up the phone, trusting that intuition, but also, you know, being willing to check in. Right. I guess just pause. Right. Like, I mean, the gifts that I've been given through the failures have been like, OK, I know to take 24, 48 hours to restraint of tongue and pen before I respond to that email or choose to pick up the phone.

[00:35:04] You know, when we show up from that heart centered, vulnerable place as a people leader, then the masks come off. Right. Because I've heard stories and stories of that corporate masking and it starts as when we are young. You know, I'm seeing my daughter deal with it. It's like they go to school and it's so performative and they they have to navigate all the friendships. And it's I always say we never leave high school. It follows us from homeroom to the boardroom.

[00:35:33] But it's so similar sometimes in corporate structures. And I feel like one of the gifts of covid is it has forced us to look at our populations as people and not just employees, people that have aging parents, kids with mental health issues, a wide variety of just life on life being situations. Right. That resonates so deeply.

[00:36:00] And I remember like I had the corporate mask, the political elbows up to some extent. I mean, it wasn't that bad. But we all I mean, let's be honest, like we have to play the game to some element. And some people are going to be more authentic and more real and more heart centered. And others are like, no, I'm not letting you see what's back there because it's mine. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think for the first 20 years of my career, I was totally wearing masks. I thought I had to be perfect.

[00:36:29] I was the achiever. And then that is not sustainable and you're not at your best. And that was what my 40s have done for me. I wish I had the same like confidence, clarity and like I don't give a crap energy that I have now. I really could have used that in my late 20s, early 30s. Yes. Yes. And here's what it's also the realization of like we can only appreciate it now because we didn't have it then. Right.

[00:36:58] Like there's this beautiful journey line of having more lived experience and the way that you can start to appreciate the things that feel really good and differentiate them from the way that you were living. And you're like, oh, OK, cool. I can do this now. Well, and to that point, I think I remember you saying like you set a goal in 24 to fall in love with your life again. You know, I'm sure that ties into kind of where you are today. But how does that look now?

[00:37:25] I mean, you look pretty in love with your life and yourself and the future. But I know it's a probably a cha-cha, you know, sometimes two steps forward, two steps back kind of situation. I just have to say it's so interesting you just brought that up because I've been writing a book for about a year and a half. I didn't know that. What? I've been a little secretive about it. Everyone is writing a book. I might do it someday. Well, it's one of those things I had a tug on my heart for so long. And finally, about a year and a half ago, I was like, OK, I'm just going to start writing.

[00:37:54] And it's been a labor of love. It has there's been six months where I did nothing with it. And then, you know, I didn't have a timeline to pressure myself. But it's been so anyhow, my point yesterday literally wrote about that. The fact that I'm at a place now I can look back to two years ago of 2024 and the intention I set. And I know exactly where I was in my phase of life. Were we at the outlier retreat in Rhode Island? No, it was right before that.

[00:38:20] The outlier retreat was actually part of the journey after I set this intention to join the community, to build intentional community. Yeah. I got clear on my purpose, my vision. And I was like, I want to fall in love with my life. And I know that that's aspirational. I'm never going to reach the finish line. But if I can appreciate where I am in my life along the way and start taking action that's aligned to it.

[00:38:42] And so anyhow, I just reflected on that because I went to Mount Shasta earlier in August with Emily Harrison, who's also part of the outlier community, and had one of those aha moments. I was sitting on top of this huge mountain and looking out and just going, oh, wait a minute. Like, I am in love with my life. I'm not saying it's perfect. Yeah. By any means. But this is what it means to be intentional. When you set a vision and you commit to yourself and you start taking all those little steps, they add up.

[00:39:12] Yeah. And prioritizing yourself and finding that equanimity and balance between being a badass leader and mom and all the things. And that is, again, in theory, simple. But the execution of it is a little bit different.

[00:39:31] And, you know, for women especially over 40, there is so many downloads and shifts and things that change for us that I love the intentionality and documenting it. And for me, like, at the point I am, too, where I just feel the gravity of my legacy, right?

[00:39:57] And it's just the old school goodwill hunting, carpe diem. Like, we – and obviously, we feel a draw towards that, being attracted to the outlier community. But, you know, it's like I want to make the best of what I have with the time I have left and be as present as possible.

[00:40:16] And I think a lot of the choices we have made from choosing to fall in love with your life to the career path that we pick is in service for – My story was, like, I don't want my daughter to think about the world of work as she's seeing it through this lens where she says, Mom, you come home and scream or cry every day. Why did you go back? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. So powerful to have that awareness of, like, yeah.

[00:40:46] Because you don't want that for your children. But then you're like, well, why am I letting myself live this way? Right, right. And our children model success after us. And, I mean, and they're the best little mirrors, right? Yes. And it just stopped me cold in my tracks. And I was like, kind of like your mountain experience where I was like, no, like, I don't want to be on my deathbed thinking I hustled and did all this for a paycheck.

[00:41:13] And if my kiddo is going to see me grind or struggle, I want it to be in service of something that I'm super fired up about, which kind of ties back into the first part of our conversation of pay attention and don't be afraid to pursue the things that don't feel like work, that are igniting. And where you find yourself just in this vortex of, oh, my God, this is what I'm building and doing.

[00:41:42] And then trusting those nudges, right? Yes. Yes. Oh, it's so well said. You know, my dad, when my dad passed away, it was 2019. And at his funeral, we passed out little, oh, my gosh, it's like the golf, the teacaps or whatever, like the divot. I don't know. Anyhow, the quote was, I'm not here for a long time. I'm here for a good time. And what you were saying, it's so fleeting in the whole scheme of things. This experience to be alive on Earth is only here for a hot minute.

[00:42:10] And once you can really like sit with that and like wrap your head around it, it just changes the way you want to show up and the impact you want to make. Yeah. So. A hundred percent. And, you know, I said to a friend the other day, I have reached the point in my life where sadly I'm getting invited to more funerals than I am weddings. And we attended a service of one of my husband's partner's father.

[00:42:37] And he was such a dynamic man. And the golden thread in that conversation was, you know, he was someone who when you were in his presence that he made you feel like the most special person in the room. And he was so damn excited about whatever you were talking about, you know. Yeah. And that just made me reflect more.

[00:43:04] And how I like to show up for people and in community is in that same vein. And I think there is a message there. And part of that where he didn't care. And it was like that just bold being out there and super present for people could have been a turnoff. It could have been a detriment to him in different ways because he's so into people.

[00:43:33] But it's that kind of leadership and presence that is inspiring. And while I might be in this season of more funerals than weddings, it's the messages that are coming in that keep me sharp and saying yes to the new things and doing the bold shit that I'm like, I don't think I can do this. But if not now, when? Like, let's go. If not now, when? And it's, yeah, just go.

[00:44:02] Like, just take the first step. Apply for the thing. Unmute yourself and show up in the way that you want your teams and your community to show up. And that's what I've had the privilege to watch you do for the last couple years. And so grateful for communities like the Outlier Project that connect women and people like us so that we can continue elevating the world of work and support each other.

[00:44:29] Everything from being a past swimmer, now people leader, where I'm navigating a childhood and swimming. And that's where I want people when they're listening to say yes to those dinners and yes to those lunches and be willing to let your guard down and be seen and understood and heard. And sometimes it may backfire, but at least you can go to bed at night and say, like, I showed up. Yes.

[00:44:57] Without having to be a different version of myself. And, you know, for me, if I could go back and talk with Anna at 2025, like, I wish my parents had said, like, pursue your passions. I'd be like, OK, I'm going to go to the dog park. See you later. But I'm so excited for what you're building. And I thank you for bringing your teams to different events in the past and showing up yourself.

[00:45:24] And lastly, like, what are you looking forward to the rest of this year and how do you want people to connect, engage and learn from you? Yeah. No, it's a great conversation. Thank you. LinkedIn is probably the best way to reach me for now. And yeah, I mean, gosh, this year has gone by so fast. So I mentioned the book so fast, right? So, I mean, yeah, just I think in general, what's top of mind for me outside of the workspace is the book. And so I'm at a place where I've got a really solid name.

[00:45:53] I know, I just went off on a whole tangent, not talking about the book. So do you have a title? When is it coming? No, don't ask so many questions. I don't know. I'm sorry. But that's how I feel when people are like, when is the next conference? I'm like, listen, I'm writing, you're writing, and I'm researching, and we'll get back to people. We'll get back to people. I am just, it's just, I'm excited to birth something into the world, you know, that is. That's how you're evolving. That's how I'm evolving. Exactly.

[00:46:19] So more to come on that, but that will be, I'm trying to get it to a place where like, you know, I potentially could publish it in 2027. So we're getting close. But amazing. And so we'll include information about the Outlier project, as well as links to your documentary. And the photos are stunning. You know, Mia, like a good photo shoot, nothing like that to boost your confidence makes you feel like a supermodel, right? It was really fun. All right. All right.

[00:46:49] Thank you so much, Anna. You're welcome. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Till next time. Keep connecting, learning, and evolving. Bye. Thanks for joining the Evolve Talent and HR show. If the conversation landed, share it. Tell it later. Pass it forward. That is the multiplier in action. One connection at a time, building momentum across our community. And that is what Evolve is. We build the rooms where connection compounds into impact.

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